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Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe?
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Merian
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

real OCD means using different colors for different functions
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

At the risk of makng another bad recommendation, this appears to be the ultimate indoor/outdoor thermometer. Four simultaneous temp readings for $33.

Steve M. wrote:
You could be cheap like me and buy this from Amazon and run the thermocouples down through the rubber plug behind the heater cover that the hot water hose for the heater pass through and tape them to the inlet and outlet hoses to the radiator with "rescue tape".
You can watch as your thermostat opens.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XC6T8PX?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

This has been on my floor since 2018!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


All of 33 bucks now..
The 130° is on the radiator near the fan switch and the engine off so temp is rising.
Usually I see 20-30° difference in the inlet and outlet hoses. Sometimes better.

Temp after 2 miles at 45mph right after shutdown.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Ithink I remember seeing 76° on the return hose in Aug. doing 70mph in the Moab area.

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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:28 am    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

^^^ Dang, this got me thinking...add channel 1 for ambient, channel 4 for transmission...what else could you possibly ask for?

Cool

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:41 am    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

Probes are only 3' long. Can they be lengthened by splicing ordinary wire in?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

^^^ I know leads up to 3m (almost 10 ft) are available... Cool

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DuncanS
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

To go from the dash to the tranny such that the wire is hidden and secure it might need 15'. If I solder extension leads on, will it display an inexact temp?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

Duncan, here's a 15' K-type thermocouple extension. This is all new to me since seeing Steve M'a temp device yesterday but it looks like the signal does not change with reasonable runs of wire. I don't have a conclusive answer other than to say buy the device, hook the thermocouple to 25 ft of bell wire and measure differences w/out the extension or against other thermometers (or drop it in boiling water if it can get wet). This is an intriguing tool.

https://www.amazon.com/K-Type-Thermocouple-Extensi...amp;sr=8-4
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It looks like K-type extension wires are solid 24 ga wires so bell wire should be fine.

https://www.amazon.com/Temperature-K-type-Thermoco...mp;sr=8-21

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[img][/img]
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.

Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro).
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Merian
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

DuncanS wrote:
Probes are only 3' long. Can they be lengthened by splicing ordinary wire in?


No, not for the one in that pic. You have to use special thermocouple wire, and keep each side the same (different metal alloys, e.g. copper vs. constantin for a type T thermocouple).

Omega Instruments is the main seller - don't get lost on their site...
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Merian
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

ok, I guarantee you that for Type anything, the two wires are different - that is how a thermocouple works, the joint between the 2 different wires creates a very tiny voltage difference.

Type T is for measuring near room temperature.

Type K is for industrial processes - e.g. the exhaust ports or maybe the manifold.

Type T is what you want for air, coolant, gear oil etc.

The reader for a Type T is not workable with Type K and vice versa.

you can run 300 ft. of type T wire and still retain 0.1 oC accuracy - I have done it to measure the insides of bird eggs while they are being incubated and how cold or hot they get when the female leaves the nest.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

Thank you, Merian. I'm constantly amazed at the vast amount of serious information all of you out there have and grateful for the access.

To show how dumb I was, I always assumed the thermocouple of the two different metals was just the blob at the end and the leads themselves were normal copper wires. Since the voltage is created by the different metals in contact, I reasoned there was no need to continue the exotic metals in the leads, which are no longer in contact and therefore no longer can create additional voltage. And to save money, the manufacturers just used normal wire from there to the receiving device. Is there any validity to this conjecture? If my factory leads are sending the voltage, is there any reason why I can't extend them with a really good fine stranded lead? Other than normal voltage losses--I would keep them as short as possible--which would degrade the indicated voltage some--would do the boiling water calibration before and after the splicing--can this work at all? An F for awkward English usage, but you get the idea.

Thanks, Duncan
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

Merian wrote:
DuncanS wrote:
Probes are only 3' long. Can they be lengthened by splicing ordinary wire in?


No, not for the one in that pic. You have to use special thermocouple wire, and keep each side the same (different metal alloys, e.g. copper vs. constantin for a type T thermocouple).

Omega Instruments is the main seller - don't get lost on their site...


So much for bell wire. Hehe...

It looks like the K-Type uses chromel and alumel alloys. Alumel for the negative conductor and chromel for the positive.

Alumel...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alumel

Chromel...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromel

Learning is fun.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.

Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro).
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

I have been trying to follow up on this for a while, but thwarted by my inability to google-Fu the device I saw here on thesamba. It was in a thread like this one, and was an inkbird 4 sensor unit, plain gray, 12 volt unit. No special doo-dads, nor wifi etc! I can't seem to find it in search, nor on alibaba, or amazon. I could use a little help!

Thanks

-bobby
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

Just ordered this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GWLDZTD/ref=cm_sw_em_...&psc=1
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

I bought this one a few months ago - wireless. Not the smallest - but display is big, easy to read, and backlit.

I put one sensor in my fridge, one in rear cabinet and I forget where I put the third one...works well for me to monitor my fridge temps - which was the main reason I got it. I'm sure I could probably zip tie one of the sensors on the underside in a ziploc bag or something, but not really something I need to measure - I usually just open my window. We'll see come winter time, my needs may change.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087J9VV4Y/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
KeeKit Indoor Outdoor Thermometer, Temperature Humidity Monitor with 3 Wireless Sensors, Hygrometer Meter Gauge with LCD Backlight, Min/Max Record for Home, Office, Restaurants, Bars – Black
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

bobbyblack wrote:
I have been trying to follow up on this for a while, but thwarted by my inability to google-Fu the device I saw here on thesamba. It was in a thread like this one, and was an inkbird 4 sensor unit, plain gray, 12 volt unit. No special doo-dads, nor wifi etc! I can't seem to find it in search, nor on alibaba, or amazon. I could use a little help!

Thanks

-bobby

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8034937&highlight=#8034937
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

dhaavers wrote:
^^^ Dang, this got me thinking...add channel 1 for ambient, channel 4 for transmission...what else could you possibly ask for?

Cool

- Dave


Uh-huh...oil coolers, engine compartment, AC air...anywhere you want to measure! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
It is important to me that the thermostat remember its display range, so many digital items seem to default to C° upon restoration from a power loss.


Wait. There’s still countries using that outdated, confusing measurement of Fahrenheit?

Just kidding. I think the USA, Micronesia, and about 4 small Caribbean islands use it too. So it’s not dead just yet.

Cool mod though! I like it!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

A human being has the ability to detect a temperature change of 1 degree F. C is too coarse a measurement.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

DuncanS wrote:
A human being has the ability to detect a temperature change of 1 degree F. C is too coarse a measurement.


A rattlesnake has thermal sensors on it face and inside it's mouth so that when they open wide to strike it can detect movement when the eyes are blinded by it's big mouth.
They can detect a temperature change of .003° in a 35 millionth of a second.
So a rattlesnake in the engine compartment can warn you of a fire... trying to train them to ring the alarm is another problem to solve. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Thermometers and where to place an ambient temperature probe? Reply with quote

I use one of these sensors inside my fridge. Works via Bluetooth. No reason you couldn't stash one outside the van somewhere...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


https://www.sensorpush.com/products/p/ht1
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