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argottschall Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2012 Posts: 21 Location: Columbia, SC
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:20 pm Post subject: Seized Axle Stub |
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After about five years of sitting, I'm finally working on my old bug again. The rear driver side wheel bearings were shot, so shot that the outer bearing fell out in pieces when I starting pulling out the rear hub assembly. Now that I've got the hub disassembled, removed the rear disk, and disconnected the CV, I can't get the axle stub to slide out. It slides in and out about 1/4 inch but won't budge beyond. I've tried increasing force to get it out, from a rubber mallet all the way up to a full two-handed sledge, and the thing won't budge an inch.
I'm guessing it's seized in the inner bearing which, if the shape of the outer bearing was any indicator, is in pretty poor shape. Or maybe I'm just missing something???
Does anybody have any suggestions to get this thing out so that I can replace the bearings and put in a new stub axle (I bunged up the threads on this one pretty bad)? Any help is greatly appreciated!!!
Here are a few pictures for reference:
_________________ 1972 Standard Beetle |
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Dan the workingstiff Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2006 Posts: 824 Location: Downriver, MI
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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Nutty idea..... what about a hole saw from the back side to get the cv mounting face off of it. Pull the c clip. Pound the whole assembly through. _________________ '69 Beetle
'66 FG buggy
My other air-cooled's
'76 IH 1200
'75 IH 1200 |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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Put studs in the boltholes. Like 10mm cylinder studs.
Drill matching holes in a metal plate. 1/2 thick? or so
This is how you make a basic puller, or in this case pusher.
Once the puller plate is in place and torqued up, hitting it with the hammer is a good idea.
Hitting the axle with a hammer directly is NOT a good idea. |
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jetmech Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2019 Posts: 135 Location: Hamilton ON, Canada
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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well since your threads are messed up I assume that you are replacing the stub shaft, Have you tried a torch and a sledge hammer togeather. Make sure you have a fire extingusher close by because the cavity between the bearing is filled with greese. _________________ 74' Super Beetle |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4025 Location: WA
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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Jack that side of the car up and pour a 50/50 mix of ATF and Acetone in and tap it a few times and let it sit for 2 hours and try again. |
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cbeck Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014 Posts: 2495 Location: high ridge, mo
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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Looks like your inner bearing spacer has been wiped out and catching/binding on the stub axle. 2x4 and a bfh. Beat the axle in far enough so that when you pull the stub axle out, you can access the spacer. Dremmel, grinder, chisel. .... to remove the spacer from the axle, keeping in mind there are several more items the axle must slide thru to be removed. Or beat in far enough to remove the cv cup to access the snap ring and slide all to the inside as an assy. _________________ My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779 |
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Pez Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2003 Posts: 583 Location: Texarkana
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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Had the same thing, heat, oil, nothing worked. Bearing was welded on. You are already to far gone and will need a stub axle so need to go ahead and just pull the trailing arm and get it on the ground. I used some extra 4x4's to prop it up and went to town with the sledge. Eventually it slowly came out. Reason you will need it off the car is each switch is going to get dampened by the trailing arm bushing and torsion bar spring plate flex, therefore you won't be able to get a solid hit.
Other option is get it in a press but the size of the stub axle flange makes supporting it a bear. _________________ Always chasing Squirrel's. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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How come nobody knows how to make a puller?
Flywheels and brake drums get stuck too.
Sometimes a hammer is the right tool, sometimes it isn't. |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4025 Location: WA
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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modok wrote: |
How come nobody knows how to make a puller?
Flywheels and brake drums get stuck too.
Sometimes a hammer is the right tool, sometimes it isn't.
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They already mashed da threads beating on it. |
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Pez Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2003 Posts: 583 Location: Texarkana
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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Starbucket wrote: |
modok wrote: |
How come nobody knows how to make a puller?
Flywheels and brake drums get stuck too.
Sometimes a hammer is the right tool, sometimes it isn't.
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They already mashed da threads beating on it. |
My threads where actually beat to death by prior abuse and the cotter pin hole was collapsed.
modok, anyone can make a puller. But not everyone has 1/2" plate laying around or the equipment to accurately drill it. And most don't have a welder to make it safe either. Also if a stub axle has gone without grease for years it may be to far gone to begin with. _________________ Always chasing Squirrel's. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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No welding needed. Just holes. In metal plate. Use the bearing cap as a template. Does not need to be any particular size, larger than the bearing cap is needed but so what if it's bigger? no problem.
You can buy bits of steel from welding shops that make railings.
They usually throw away parts smaller than a foot. 5$, maybe 10$ max.
10lb of scrap steel is only worth 1$, you will pay twice that then they should be happy to sell to you
Today I google.... "brake drum puller", I look at images. It's like a gallery of failure and bad ideas.
Somebody has chains welded to a jack.
I would not go near that. little bits of 1/8 plate welded together??, chains welded to a wheel going to a jack???
I didn't know man, I DID not know.
And I'm sorry. People who DO know what they are doing have been doing this for 150 years and NOT taking a picture of it so we gotta remedy that.
If not today, then tomorrow, if not this time, or next time. Monkey see monkey do world. If you've seen it done before then I bet you'd have it off already.
four 10mm studs, at ONLY 20ft-lbs, should develop 6000 pounds of force.
Maybe get a whole new trailing arm, not a bad idea.
Whatever you gotta do.
I'm not here JUST to stoke my ego by assailing you with my superior knowledge of farm equipment maintenance theology.
You want to change wheel bearings, then you might want to learn how wheel bearings get changed.
There have been many wheel bearings in the past and there will be lots in the future too. |
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volksworld Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011 Posts: 2529 Location: formerly NY currently NC
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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at this point i'd just put in a used trailing arm assembly...you're 4 bolts away from removing it anyway....by the time you buy a stub axle, bearings and spacer it could work out cheaper cause hopefully the bearings in the one you get will be able to be cleaned and repacked...they really dont go bad that often |
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Pez Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2003 Posts: 583 Location: Texarkana
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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modok wrote: |
No welding needed. Just holes. In metal plate. Use the bearing cap as a template. Does not need to be any particular size, larger than the bearing cap is needed but so what if it's bigger? no problem.
You can buy bits of steel from welding shops that make railings.
They usually throw away parts smaller than a foot. 5$, maybe 10$ max.
10lb of scrap steel is only worth 1$, you will pay twice that then they should be happy to sell to you
Today I google.... "brake drum puller", I look at images. It's like a gallery of failure and bad ideas.
Somebody has chains welded to a jack.
I would not go near that. little bits of 1/8 plate welded together??, chains welded to a wheel going to a jack???
I didn't know man, I DID not know.
And I'm sorry. People who DO know what they are doing have been doing this for 150 years and NOT taking a picture of it so we gotta remedy that.
If not today, then tomorrow, if not this time, or next time. Monkey see monkey do world. If you've seen it done before then I bet you'd have it off already.
four 10mm studs, at ONLY 20ft-lbs, should develop 6000 pounds of force.
Maybe get a whole new trailing arm, not a bad idea.
Whatever you gotta do.
I'm not here JUST to stoke my ego by assailing you with my superior knowledge of farm equipment maintenance theology.
You want to change wheel bearings, then you might want to learn how wheel bearings get changed.
There have been many wheel bearings in the past and there will be lots in the future too. |
Yeah sure you can piece one together with different bits. I used scrap schedule 40 3" pipe, used like you said the bearing cap as a template and welded a chunk of steel to the other end. Yes it applied tons of pressure but the nut had to be replaced several times because it kept destroying it's threads and it was a grade 8 3/4" bolt/nut. In theory should of worked great but like all designs there is usually a failure point you have to work out at some point.
I have experience and can pretty well understand what that failure point is and what precautions to take. But I hesitate to recommend building high pressure tools to people I don't know, case in point. This picture from another stub axle thread. Did the drum puller with non 8.8 bolts that where bent right at the most likely point of failure work for this guy? Maybe, but it might blow up in the next dudes face.
And yea, google brings up some terrifying pullers, pushers or other death traps. I'm positive that's why we have a safety guy march through our shop every year. But I do second a replacement trailing arm, often cheaper because stub axles and bearings aren't cheap. But either direction you take, take your time and do it right. Short cuts never work _________________ Always chasing Squirrel's. |
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argottschall Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2012 Posts: 21 Location: Columbia, SC
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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Thanks for all of the ideas! The axle stub is long gone, the threads were pretty rough and rusted already and my hammering didn't help.
I don't have any good steel on hand to make a puller but I do have a grinder and a cutoff wheel so I think I'm going to try cutting off the CV cup end of the stub with a cutting wheel and see if I can pull the clip and slide everything out. It that fails, I'll pull off the trailing arm and try that approach next.
Thanks everyone! _________________ 1972 Standard Beetle |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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Pez wrote: |
using threaded fasteners is dangerous |
Yes, but he had no problem unbolting the other parts so he must be willing to take the risk.
IMO mechanics need to know how bolts work. Many don't, but they SHOULD
Don't know why so many people just have to have a bolt in the middle. It has four studs on the edges you just tighten those.
principle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_LSPX8cNaE&ab_channel=AvE |
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runamoc Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5600 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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Air chisels from HF come with many attachments. I've used the 'pointy' one and stuck it in the recess of the stub axle and 'hammered' the axle out. Able to reuse the axle too.
_________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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AutoMechanic Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2019 Posts: 483 Location: Roanoke Virginia
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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How about an air hammer? |
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argottschall Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2012 Posts: 21 Location: Columbia, SC
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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Finally got it out. I ended up cutting off the CV cup with a cutting wheel, then pulled the seal and circlip to release the whole thing. Once out, I realized it was the long spacer that was seized, not the bearing. Just got a new stub axle and bearings, etc. installed and everything went in perfect.
Thanks for the suggestions! _________________ 1972 Standard Beetle |
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AutoMechanic Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2019 Posts: 483 Location: Roanoke Virginia
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Seized Axle Stub |
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Glad to hear it got done. |
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