1776cc engine issues

[King Ruckus]

Ok, so the new jets arrived and I tried switching out the 130's. the old ones were definitely bigger so they had been drilled out, but the new 130's did nothing to help. I then tried the 125's and the issue got worse. I didnt try the 120's as I ran out of time, but if the 125's made things worse im assuming 120's will only exacerbate the issue.

I did check the fuel filter again and it also looked fine.

Any ideas?

[rcooled]

[King Ruckus]

well after a couple of weeks of trying things I have some updates.

I tried upping the jetting to 135, and 140s with no change. I checked the fuel pressure again with a more specialized fuel pressure gauge and it was at 5psi so I got it down to a little below 1.5psi and it had no change.

I then switched out my 009 distributor with a svda petronix and it actually made an improvement. I gave it a little more advance, to around 7 degrees at idle and 30 degrees at 3000rpm and it helped a little more. I was going to try and give it a little more advance but ran into another issue.

When trying to balance the carburetors with a carb airflow meter I cannot get the passenger side carb to draw in less air than 7 Kg/H, which means the idle rpm is close to 1000rpm. The throttle body screw completely comes off the flange and wont decrease the rpm. It really seams to like the advance, but I cant figure out how to get the idle rpm down while keeping the carbs synched. Is this a sign that the throttle bodies are junk or should I be looking at something else? I have not touched the throttle bodies and I bought them used. I also tried spraying carb cleaner on the throttle bodies and there was no significant surging so it doesnt seem like they are super worn or leaking.

[carcrazed]

That is typical of an vacuum leak. I would really inspect those with some brake clean or carb cleaner by spraying around them to see if the idle changes. I ran down that same problem for a long time and it drove me crazy.
_________________
1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles

"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong."

[King Ruckus]

hey guys, a bit of an update. I got new throttle bodies from Kaddieshack and paid the extra for the improved bushings and the problem is still there. However, while I was putting on the throttle body on the drivers side I noticed the vacuum advance port was movable and easily came out with a bit of a tug. I went to autozone and they said to use jb weld to seal it, so I threw some on and shoved the tube back in. After it was dry (waited 48 hrs) I went to tune the carbs and tried putting the hose on the vacuum port and the JB weld immediately broke loose.

Can someone offer a suggestion for what to keep the tube in place, or is there a better elbow tube to use in the vacuum port?

[rcooled]

[toxicavenger70]

How about flaring the end of the line to make the seal into the carb tighter? Or replace the line in the carb with a barb that is threaded on one end. https://www.google.com/search?q=threaded+barb

[ashman40]

I read thru all the posts... I have to ask if you have tried adjusting the accelerator pump at all? I'm not familiar with Kadron carbs but I have to assume there is some form of accelerator pump adjustment.

There are three things to concern yourself with re: accelerator pumps:

Clean discharge spray. Not uncommon for the discharge nozzles to get clogged over time. Clean them with carb cleaner, sonic bath or even a fine wire. When you pull on the throttle lever do you see a strong stream of fuel or just a weak squirt/dribble?

Nozzles spray fuel down the carb throat the INSTANT the throttle plates open. There are check valves inside the accelerator pump system to prevent any fuel from flowing back into the pump. Fuel should be at the tip of the discharge nozzle ready to "jump out"! The instant the throttle plate begins opening the air-fuel mixture goes instantly lean as the air rushes into the intake. The accelerator pump must compensate immediately by squirting raw fuel down the intake to richen the mixture. Any delay due to loose linkages or play in the mechanical parts results in the engine stalling as it goes lean. This applies at idle rpms or when accelerating at higher rpms too.

Adjust the amount of fuel that is discharged. This is typically done with changes in the nozzle size or adjusting the mechanical linkages to limit/increase the stroke of the accelerator pump.... decreasing/increasing the volume of fuel that is discharged. Too little fuel and the mixture is lean. Too much fuel and you flood the engine. Try adjusting the volume and you should hear/see a difference in the response at the extreme ends of adjustment. Too lean and you may hear popping from a lean running engine. Too rich and you may see black smoke and bogging.

_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[King Ruckus]

thanks for the replies, guys.

The little tube that goes into the vacuum port is a pretty close fit. there isnt much wiggle room and I dont think i could get a large tube into the port, but im not sure if its creating a vacuum leak under high pressure, hence the bogging issue happening at higher gears.

When I used the jb weld I tried cleaning the tube with carb cleaner and the same with the port, but when I stuck the tube into the port the jb weld mushroomed out and I dont think any actually stayed in the port.

I did watch the stream of fuel from the nozzle while revving the engine on both sides and it seemed like it was a constant stream, but without having any context I can say for sure. I have not yet messed with the acceleration pump. A friend has some working kadrons that he is going to let me try out and see if the engine runs on another set. While my pair are off I will check the accelerator pump.

[Dougy Dee]

Is the check ball still located in the pump jet circuit?

With engine off, does the pump jet circuit give a clear and immediate stream when operating the throttle?

[King Ruckus]

Dougy Dee: yep, each carb gives a steady stream when off.

Well, I spent the day pulling the carbs. While the carbs were off I checked the acceleration pump and they needed adjustment, so I corrected them. I also ran a compression test and everything seemed to look good on compression. the valves were also double checked.

However, there was no improvement once I got the carbs back on, and the problem is still there... im getting really close to lighting this car on fire.

[rcooled]

[King Ruckus]

So I think I found the problem. I took the carbs off today with the sole intent to pull out the emulsion tubes and clean them. I got the carbs second hand and they had been very dirty. I went through the passenger side carb and the emulsion tube was a little dirty, but didnt look too bad. I cleaned it and put it back in. I then took apart the drivers side and the emulsion tube was GONE! Not damaged, not loose, gone. It was completely missing, but I had never noticed in any of my previous tear downs because I knew they could not easily come out and just never took the second to check.

I have the original box that the carbs came in and lo and behold the emulsion tube was still there. I tried putting it in, but its fairly loose and easily falls out, which explains why it wasnt in there in the first place.

So, my question now is what is a good way to keep the little bastard in place? Would it be better to buy a new emulsion tube or can I use a little lock tight to set it? Also, do they need to be facing a certain way or can you just put them in any direction?

[67rustavenger]

Don't use anything to hold the emulsion tube in the holder.
The tube is held in the holder via friction from the holder. I have some that are a little loose.
The whole Main jet, Emulsion tube, Ac jet and holder are a system.

Try to get the emulsion tube and all the other goodies in the carb body and use the holder to hold it all together. It won't go anywhere after the holder is tight.

EDIT: In the image below. Left is an IDA jet stack. Right is an IDF. Notice the threads on the holders? Those tie the whole jet stack together.

If you cannot get the stack into the carb without the E-tube falling out of the holder. Take the carb off the engine and tilt it to one side and insert the jet stack.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[King Ruckus]

are those for kadrons? Mine looks completely different.

like this, https://www.shop.kaddieshack.com/Kadron-Solex-H40-...KAD-EM.htm

[Dougy Dee]

You are right. Those are for WEBERS not Kadrons.
How loose is your E-tube in the carb body?
Does it look like the body has been fooled with?
Has the E-tube been fooled with?

[King Ruckus]

nothing looks out the ordinary. the tube looks like the passenger side one, and the carb slot for the e-tube looks fine. When I put the e-tube in the carb is drops right into place and there is no movement, but if I flip the carb over it slips out without much effort.

[Janne71]

Hi
Interesting post here. I’ll have the same problem with my kads from Kaddie
Jetting whiteout numbers. Change them to 130 main and 50-55 idle
Bought a 123 ign W. Vacuum advance but have stumbling between low and hi speed. But if I wot it goes away the hesitation.

[Chuey]

I hope you are, indeed, zeroing in on the problem.

After reading the thread, I am wondering if you have tried a different coil? I don't even understand what they do, but the condensor is something else I have heard causes problems.

I write this as someone who has had the most fabulous luck with Kadrons. I hope your solution comes soon and that you let us know what you learned it was.

Cheers, Chuey