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Frodge Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2006 Posts: 1991 Location: Dump
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:11 pm Post subject: Valve adjustment screws. |
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Where can a really nice fellow like me get a set of oem valve
Adjustment screws that are in good shape? Much appreciated.
Frodginald. |
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bobinphx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2016 Posts: 165
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment screws. |
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swap meets, junk yards, or....
I have had great luck heat treating the tips of new ones. Heat the tip to cherry red and then dunk it in a pail of salted water. Ive got a couple thousand miles on some I did that to. No real wear to the tips or the ends of the valves. |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5364 Location: Lefty, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:02 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment screws. |
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bobinphx wrote: |
I have had great luck heat treating the tips of new ones. Heat the tip to cherry red and then dunk it in a pail of salted water. Ive got a couple thousand miles on some I did that to. No real wear to the tips or the ends of the valves. |
If you want your engine to have a long lifespan, PLEASE don't do this. He has totally changed the metallurgy of the adjustment screws from ductile to brittle. The adjustment screws are striking the top of the valves many thousands of times per minute. Just like cam and lifters must share a specific metallurgy relationship, so must the valves and adjustment screws. The adjustment screws are designed to have ductile qualities to absorb these impacts. When heat treated, yes they will be harder, but also far more brittle. I don't like bashing on people, but when something could lead to a catastrophic engine failure, I have to speak up. In a well built engine, nothing should show any signs of wear after just a couple of thousands of miles. I don't build many engines anymore (age), but I still expect around 100k out of them. _________________ 69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31373 Location: Hot Arizona
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bobinphx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2016 Posts: 165
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment screws. |
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Cusser, thank you for the opposing opinion. Time will tell which opinion is correct. I do appreciate what you are saying and applaud that you would say it. |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26320 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment screws. |
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Ugh, I rather agree with the comment above railing against that sort of home grown heat treating. Now, I have gone and refaced adjusters before with a little bit of time on the face of a disc sander (knowing well enough not to make their contact surface flat) but in short enough bursts not to ruin the stock metallurgy. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment screws. |
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personaly I would rather sand pappaer my asss that use oe type adjusters.....but I do understand how some people like that sort of stuff. if I had to use some and knew they were soft I would also heetreet them....and use lashcaps too...loose fitting lash caps not tight ones..and reworked rockers...and...oh never mind. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31373 Location: Hot Arizona
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76935 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment screws. |
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Cusser wrote: |
mark tucker wrote: |
I would rather sand pappaer my asss |
We know you'll share that experience with us. |
Pictures or it didn't happen. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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goober Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2003 Posts: 1183
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment screws. |
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This is what I've done.
If you have worn but OEM screws, they should be harden to about a Grade 8 hardness all the way through. If you have a lathe and an OEM screw in decent shape make a tool shaped to that radius (half). Cut the screw tip to that shape on your lathe. When the screw's in the rocker arm and rocking, you can almost judge the radius you need.
If you have a belt sander you can free-hand a pretty good radius if you take your time. Dip the screw frequently in water. Don't let the screw heat discolor.
I once had a set of aftermarket soft mild steel screws. I used some old Kasenit and case hardened the tips. I had mixed results. Wasn't too impressed with the life. (if you find some old Kasenit powder be careful, it's toxic)
The OEM screws are the best. I've re-radiused them several times and I've been using them for years. |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11740 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment screws. |
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CB Performance has a new set of Rhino adjustment screws with nuts. I don’t know anything about them, but CB has a good reputation, so this set—for $24.00—maybe pretty good.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien
Last edited by Tim Donahoe on Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5364 Location: Lefty, CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment screws. |
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goober wrote: |
This is what I've done.
If you have worn but OEM screws, they should be harden to about a Grade 8 hardness all the way through. |
I'm not going to let this one go. DON'T PLAY DANIEL BOONE, blacksmith with your engine parts. Are the ORIGINAL, OEM adjustment screws grade 8, nope, that's why over time, they mushroom, deform, etc. They were designed to be able to do their job for X amount of time and are considered a throw away part.
Am I just guessing at consequences? No, when I was working on my Masters of Science in Industrial Technology, one of my classes dealt with the properties of metal. In this class we had Rockwell hardness testers to measure the characteristics of metal after heat treating, and we would preform quenching across the range from ice water to hot oil. We also had an electron microscope, so we could see the shifts in carbon and other impurities as we did our experiments.
The bottom line is, that when two pieces of metal are striking themselves, you are not looking for hardness, but durability. If there was 0 valve lash, that would be a whole different story. But even 0.006" in clearance constitutes a strike, and that energy has to be dissipated somehow. When we think we are smarter than the VW engineers, it's time to back off. _________________ 69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment screws. |
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Glenn wrote: |
Cusser wrote: |
mark tucker wrote: |
I would rather sand pappaer my asss |
We know you'll share that experience with us. |
Pictures or it didn't happen. |
whats rong with you too is no small thing. |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12467
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment screws. |
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Lighten up Francis |
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bobinphx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2016 Posts: 165
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment screws. |
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8k on my adjusters now. small amount of polishing has happened to the tips, no sign of wear on the valve tip. I have not had to adjust them at all(I do check the gap at every oil change) They are staying set, not wearing out, not wearing the valve tip and have not chipped or shattered. This motor is a 1500 based mystery motor and I am an old man driver, so the rpms seldom go over 4k.
Sure beats the first set that wore out of adjustment in under 500 miles.
all this being said, I do agree that home metallurgy may not be for everyone. I would also say that for high ramp and high lift cams or high rpms, this may not be a good idea.
bottom line is that its working for me and that's all I know. |
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