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Are all Ball Joints Created Equal?
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

vwhammer wrote:

ya might steer clear (no pun intended) of the generic 5 dollar tie rod ends and ball joints that you can find at Rockauto but, in my opinion, any of the mid priced units have worked fine for me and friends of mine.

We don't get too hung up on making sure all our crap is OEM, German made and all that.

Friend of mine has a MK4 Jetta with 340,000 miles that is practically a rolling Rockauto catalog and about the only time he has to replace a part ahead of a normal replacement time frame is when he crashes.
Its a commuter/autocross/track day/mountain twisty car.
He's pretty hard on it.


A Vanagon ball joint is completely different in function than a Jetta/Golf ball joint. The Jetta/Golf ball joint you described sees very little vertical load whereas a Vanagon ball joint see a huge vertical load. In fact, a Vanagon ball joint has to carry the entire corner load of the van. Due to the strut design of the Jetta/Golf you described, the ball joint sees most of its vertical load from the anti-roll bar and never sees anything close to the entire corner load of the vehicle. It's apples to oranges...and there's a reason that Vanagon owners are concerned. When an owner has to pay a shop to replace a ball joint and that joint lasts less than a few thousand miles, which is exactly what happens with the lower quality lower ball joints mentioned in this thread, there's good reason to choose your ball joints wisely.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

YVwhammer, you'd better be knocking on wood as I believe your good luck is not the norm. I had one van on jack stands for a couple of months while doing a bunch of work on it. One of the first things I did was replace an upper ball joint. The boot cracked with zero miles on it before I even got it off the jack stands. Shocked
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

Christopher Schimke wrote:
vwhammer wrote:

ya might steer clear (no pun intended) of the generic 5 dollar tie rod ends and ball joints that you can find at Rockauto but, in my opinion, any of the mid priced units have worked fine for me and friends of mine.

We don't get too hung up on making sure all our crap is OEM, German made and all that.

Friend of mine has a MK4 Jetta with 340,000 miles that is practically a rolling Rockauto catalog and about the only time he has to replace a part ahead of a normal replacement time frame is when he crashes.
Its a commuter/autocross/track day/mountain twisty car.
He's pretty hard on it.


A Vanagon ball joint is completely different in function than a Jetta/Golf ball joint. The Jetta/Golf ball joint you described sees very little vertical load whereas a Vanagon ball joint see a huge vertical load. In fact, a Vanagon ball joint has to carry the entire corner load of the van. Due to the strut design of the Jetta/Golf you described, the ball joint sees most of its vertical load from the anti-roll bar and never sees anything close to the entire corner load of the vehicle. It's apples to oranges...and there's a reason that Vanagon owners are concerned. When an owner has to pay a shop to replace a ball joint and that joint lasts less than a few thousand miles, which is exactly what happens with the lower quality lower ball joints mentioned in this thread, there's good reason to choose your ball joints wisely.


Thanks for that Chris. That's a very astute observation that I hadn't thought about before. Yup, with the vanagon, the spring pushes on the lower control arm so most of the weight of that corner of the vehicle is pushing on the ball joint all the time. In contrast, the jetta has the strut (with spring above) pinched into the steering knuckle so basically none of the weight of the vehicle pushes on the ball joint and the ball joint and lower control arm are just hanging out unless the sway bar is pushing on them.
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Franklinstower
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

My upper joints were replaced with meyle or febi a few years ago, I just noticed I basically have no boots left, completely shredded. So I bought some lemforders.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


What isn't made in China in a German box these days?

I just hope the boots last more than a few years.
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

I think I posted somewhere about thesea few months back.

They seem ok, the lower ones are still made in Germany, but for how long?

For the boots, keep dreaming Laughing

I bought a few urethane boots to try but didn`t fit well enough, from obscur cars.
I have urethane boots for the tie rod ends, I got a company willing to mix molds from other customers and we made a few of them kinda in stealth mode. They`re great, no failure so far nor signs of aging on all the vans I mounted them on. Only positive feedback from the few people who bouht them for themselves.

I`m saving cash to afford a mold for the cv boots, stock size, next is the ball joint boots...
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Franklinstower
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

ALIKA T3 wrote:
I think I posted somewhere about thesea few months back.


I`m saving cash to afford a mold for the cv boots, stock size, next is the ball joint boots...


Sweet, Thanks Alex. Keep us informed!
At least the "Lemforders" I purchased were only $9 each on FCP Euro.

Paul
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Wellington
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

We can now add MOOG lower ball joints to the pile of trash.
I ordered some and they arrived with a stamped steel end plate just like the rest of the garbage available.
I called Moog to inquire on the change, the gentleman informed me that Moog does not manufacture this model, and buy it from a third party and resell it.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

My lower ball joints were fine but the boots had failed. For all the reasons above I was reluctant to install new, possibly inferior, parts -- so I just replaced the boots using a 'universal' polyurethane boot:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CN5F14/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I packed them full of grease and so far (not quite a year) all seems well, i.e. they keep the grease in and the dirt out:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:
-- so I just replaced the boots using a 'universal' polyurethane boot:



Nice. Awesome tip.
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fxr
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:
Ahwahnee wrote:
-- so I just replaced the boots using a 'universal' polyurethane boot:



Nice. Awesome tip.

Indeed, much appreciated.
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

Franklinstower wrote:
ALIKA T3 wrote:
I think I posted somewhere about thesea few months back.


I`m saving cash to afford a mold for the cv boots, stock size, next is the ball joint boots...


Sweet, Thanks Alex. Keep us informed!
At least the "Lemforders" I purchased were only $9 each on FCP Euro.

Paul


And replacements are almost free...
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Steve M.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

I just received a pair of the made in Germany Lower Ball Joints with the cast steel bottoms.

These are being sold on eBay through the Pep Boys Store and labeled MOOG "K9111"
I just compared it to the Lemfoerder and it is the same 48mm dia.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOOG-Suspension-Ball-Join...d=76620059

Moog Lower Ball Joint K9111
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Unfortunately, they are $51.00.

There is another eBay store that is showing the right picture, but they ship out a steel pressed in bottom ball joint.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ball-Joint-Front-Lower-fo...06f6440a2d
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Last edited by Steve M. on Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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DanHoug
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

watch the shipping... $30!!
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

actually, shipping is about $16.05 with discount
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Steve M.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

The Pep Boys ebay store says "Free 4 Day Shipping"...they just charge you $52.00 to cover the shipping cost!
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smeeegheeead
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

Man. Lightning strikes fast around here... cheapest I'm seeing that part number listed for now (MOOG) is $80 except this which sets off the bullshit alarm big time.
https://www.misofad.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=190132
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Steve M.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

smeeegheeead wrote:
Man. Lightning strikes fast around here... cheapest I'm seeing that part number listed for now (MOOG) is $80 except this which sets off the bullshit alarm big time.
https://www.misofad.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=190132


Find out who chissync is who reviewed them! Maybe they're a Samba member!
I'm going to be pissed if they are that price! Sad
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

https://www.google.com/search?q=misofad+review&...nt=gws-wiz

looks like they are a scam site.

either way...i have paid 800+ for a control arm in the past. 80 bux for a GOOD part is a deal in my book
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
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most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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Steve M.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
https://www.google.com/search?q=misofad+review&...nt=gws-wiz

looks like they are a scam site.

either way...i have paid 800+ for a control arm in the past. 80 bux for a GOOD part is a deal in my book


Yes, but you can get it for less. See my links above.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? Reply with quote

i saw that.

i'm going to call NAPA and see what they can do for me. i have a new set in there now, but i don't have high hopes
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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