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Stewart2.0
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Joined: September 27, 2018
Posts: 17
Location: PA
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 Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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Yes, you are correct, the Holley system comes with a new wide band O2 sensor and yes exactly what valvecovergasket said. You do not simply install the system and start driving, there are critical inputs needed by the software to understand the variables and hardware being used. I started with a Volume Efficiency Fuel table, the closed loop makes adjustments on the fly to hit the air fuel ration you are shooting for and you can then apply the learnings to the base fuel table so that the closed loop does not have to compensate as much, you can then use a feature in the Holley software that "softens" the curve of your fuel table. Since I wanted to understand how the software works I signed up for an online class on EFI and the Terminator X software through https://www.evans-tuning.com/evans-performance-academy
He lives local to me here in Pennsylvania, I don't know him, but I am learning a lot about EFI and the Terminator X system so that I can maintain / tune it myself without having to rely on a tuner. |
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17119
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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| system so that I can maintain / tune it myself without having to rely on a tuner. |
Exactly. Tunes once set don't really stray, but if at some point you have a problem related to the system or something entirely different you are mostly on your own to figure it out. Knowledge is power.
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valvecovergasket
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Joined: October 10, 2018
Posts: 1491
Location: pnw
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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| MarkWard wrote: |
| Quote: |
| system so that I can maintain / tune it myself without having to rely on a tuner. |
Exactly. Tunes once set don't really stray, but if at some point you have a problem related to the system or something entirely different you are mostly on your own to figure it out. Knowledge is power. |
and even just having the ability to plug in and directly check sensor readings later on down the road has obviously huge benefits for troubleshooting.
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vwlukas
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Joined: April 01, 2020
Posts: 43
Location: hood river
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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It sounds like you are still tuning but could you elaborate a little more on your experience with this upgrade when it comes to gas mileage?
This is exactly what i'm looking for to get our van running better. I have a tired 1.9L that i would like to rebuild rather than swap out. But gas mileage is the most important to me so if the gas mileage isn't improving much i may just do a swap but i would much rather rebuild |
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valvecovergasket
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018
Posts: 1491
Location: pnw
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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not a direct waterboxer comparison, but for lean burn on the highway and light loads on most iron block aluminum head 4 cylinders ive tuned you can usually crank the AFR targets to 16-17 as long as you crank the ignition timing to compensate if you get bucking. this works if you dont have a cat, otherwise youd want to trim the AFR targets a good bit richer - which obviously hits your mileage
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17119
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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Other than parts availability, all the manufactures of stock engine management systems do a pretty good job with a tune that works -22 F to +100F, at sea level or 10,000 feet, AC on or off. Not saying it can't be improved, but all in all, stock systems are pretty good. Decent drivability, mpg and low emission.
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Stewart2.0
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Joined: September 27, 2018
Posts: 17
Location: PA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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| I have not run a MPG test as of yet. I plan to run one next weekend as I will be on the PA Turnpike headed to the first VW show in a long long time. |
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valvecovergasket
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Joined: October 10, 2018
Posts: 1491
Location: pnw
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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| Stewart2.0 wrote: |
| I have not run a MPG test as of yet. I plan to run one next weekend as I will be on the PA Turnpike headed to the first VW show in a long long time. |
can you share your AFR targets as a reference as well
are you still running a cat?
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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Stewart2.0
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Joined: September 27, 2018
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Location: PA
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Stewart2.0
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Joined: September 27, 2018
Posts: 17
Location: PA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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Additional Photos of installed components -
Engine Appearance after the upgrade -
New ECU and Ignition Control Units
New Idle Control Unit
Coil, relay and fuse where old coil, idle control box and ignition module were
Example of the supplied engine harness
New intake pipe that replaced the stock air flow meter
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dobryan
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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| Stewart2.0 wrote: |
New intake pipe that replaced the stock air flow meter
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That looks a lot like the AFM delete I performed on an offbrand vehicle.
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xoo00oox
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Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2672
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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| Thanks for sharing this, that is a nice clean install. Is there a MAP sensor as well as the MAF sensor? |
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Stewart2.0
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Joined: September 27, 2018
Posts: 17
Location: PA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:48 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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| It uses a MAP sensor and Throttle Position Sensor, it does not have a MAF |
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17119
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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Was the vanagon tach plug and play? We have an MSD 6AL on a stock digifant system and had to add a tach adapter to work with the vanagon tach.
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xoo00oox
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Joined: February 11, 2010
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Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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| Stewart2.0 wrote: |
| It uses a MAP sensor and Throttle Position Sensor, it does not have a MAF |
Is that an intake air temp sensor on the pipe coming off the air filter housing? |
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Stewart2.0
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Posts: 17
Location: PA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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| Yes, the air temp sensor is downstream from the stock air filter box |
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a2wolfsburggli
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Joined: October 30, 2018
Posts: 279
Location: WI
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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| Stewart2.0 wrote: |
All while keeping the soul of the van at less than 1/2 the cost of a engine swap.
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Half of the parts cost of a self done $5k garage swap or a shop done $20K swap?
I'm curious to know real world costs; and a dyno run and MPG figures are really needed in this post.
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valvecovergasket
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018
Posts: 1491
Location: pnw
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Holley Terminator X EFI - it works!!!!! |
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| xoo00oox wrote: |
| Thanks for sharing this, that is a nice clean install. Is there a MAP sensor as well as the MAF sensor? |
as mentioned earlier - speed (engine speed) and air density (MAP + IAT) are all thats needed
MAF is another way to capture incoming air
and the third - very unlikely to find its way to a vanagon is alpha-n using engine speed, intake air temp and throttle position as a way to estimate loading without using a vacuum/pressure signal.
| a2wolfsburggli wrote: |
| Stewart2.0 wrote: |
All while keeping the soul of the van at less than 1/2 the cost of a engine swap.
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Half of the parts cost of a self done $5k garage swap or a shop done $20K swap?
I'm curious to know real world costs; and a dyno run and MPG figures are really needed in this post. |
considering the efi hardware itself is ~$1100, and someone else tuned it, i would throw out a random number of $3000 once its all said and done.
one really important thing i dont see mentioned here or on the holley site is real time barometric correction!
this would be a key feature id look for on a van thats likely to find its way into mountains and on cold mornings at elevation more often than a weekend summer cruiser.
interested to know what the plan was there, but if that feature isnt available id find a way to sort it...
i dont mean to be pedantic in here, just enjoy talking standalone setups and have been working with for coming up on almost 20 years now. its wild how far stuff has come in the last 10 years or so prices really dropping!
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