Help setting up a used gear set in a manual transaxle

[jordauto]

In the close up pics of the ring gear you can see where the gears have been running together. There is no perceptible lip or wear when running a finger nail or such over it. It ran so quietly until the small pinion bearing failed. Gears, I had read your recommendation of adding a small chamfer and did that before assembling. I used a Dremel and a small fine stone bit and created the slightest chamfer at the edge. Before pressing the bearing on of course so as not to contaminate the new bearing. I feel pretty confident that the shop that did the last rebuild did a good job as it was perfect and quiet until the small bearing failed. I’m not going to name the shop but they are one of major VW trans builders and have done excellent work for me and my customers that I have referred to them over the years. Too often these threads get derailed and turn into a bash fest filled with unsubstantiated third hand information and hear say. As a small business owner I know how damaging that can be to a shop reputation. It’s in our best interest to keep these small businesses open and supporting our little community.

[Sodo]

I thought you meant the 'small gear' (pinion).
Sorry for that misunderstanding.
How often do the needles go out?
Are they always replaced?
I suppose bump-starting in 1st gear would be pretty hard on it.

Anyway getting ripped off several times over 5 years causes a fairly indelible imprint in the memory.
That said, a shop can change their ways too, and gain experience too.
Back in the 'oughtsit was dog-eat-dog where customers thought the cheapest rebuild was the best rebuild, even while doubling the HP and ignoring lubricant condition.
A terrible trifecta for vehicles moving into the antique realm.
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'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Wildthings]

[jordauto]

Well after playing with pinion depth and backlash some more I've decided that I'm not going to get an acceptable contact pattern with this gear set and I've ordered a new set from Weddle. I tried the .65, .70 and .75mm shims again and tried increasing backlash to .010"-.012", I even went up as high as .015" backlash which I wouldn't run but wanted to see if it helped. Nothing I did would even start to show anything except a thin line on the drive side from toe to heel all along the root of the tooth. I settled on a new genuine VW gear set in 5.43 since I have a heavy full Westy 2wd with a Subaru 2.2 and a locker and do a lot of bush roads and logging roads and I've always found 1st to be too tall of a gear. I run 215/65R16 BFG K02 that are bigger than stock so all gears are higher than stock with those tires. I ordered a .82 4th and using Weddles excellent gear ratio calculator it will result in only about 250 rpm more at 100Kph while lowering 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. I didn't want to go as far as the .77 4th and have such a big jump from 3rd to 4th. And I feel the jump from 2nd to 3rd is big enough already I didn't want to increase 3rd to a higher ratio. Stay tuned, the new gear set should be here in a week or so.

[jordauto]

Just look at those beauties. Anyone smarter than me know which shim I should start with based on the number etched in the ring gear? The 1277 circled is the mating number and is on the pinion as well. This is a new genuine VW 5.43. Made by Klingenberg.

[jordauto]

Am I correct in thinking the base pinion depth is 63.0mm + the .28mm etched on the ring gear? So would starting with a .50mm and .15mm to make up .65mm be a good starting point.

[djkeev]

Interesting, but this whole thread is so far out of my pay grade!

Watching........

Dave
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[gears]

The last 3 factory-assembled 5.43 R&P transaxles that I've disassembled had these specs:

etched "r" measured "r" shim
25 22 .4
30 32 .5
30 32 .5
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[jordauto]

I had some time after customer jobs to get back on this. After carefully swapping the new pinion bearing bearing over from the old to new pinion I pressed it into the case with the .65mm shim as my starting point. Then removed the old crown gear and replaced it with the new one. Mounted up the diff and set my backlash at .008” to start. What a huge difference it makes to have a new gear set without wear.

It actually looks pretty good. Even the pinion drive side looks pretty good. That was all the time I had today. I might try increasing the backlash another thousands or two and see if I can stretch the pattern a little longer along the drive teeth. If that doesn’t do it then it might be time to try the .70mm shim and decrease the backlash back to the .006”-.007” I’d like to see on a new gear set.

[old_man]

Looks pretty nice. My understanding is that as the load increases the pattern will stretch as well, I could be wrong because I am not an expert. Definitely looks nice though.

[jordauto]

Finally had a few minutes to get back on this again and fine tuned the backlash and preload a bit and rechecked the contact pattern. I'm at .65mm for the pinion shim and .007" backlash and my pattern exactly matches the factory lapped pattern so I will run it. Next question, I'm using one of the Weddle "racing gears" .82 4th gear and it has a "floating" synchro cone. I find it awkward that the cone just floats and rattles about in there. Anyone else have concerns with that set up? I have the parts and will probably just run them anyway but just curious.

[MarkWard]

You have a picture of the floating syncro cone?
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[Captain Pike]

Yea, the floating cone is a bit unsettling. I assume there is some logic to it.
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[jordauto]

There you go Mark. 4th gear idler has a thrust surface that rides against the machined centre of the 3-4 hub, and against the mainsahft bearing on the other side. The cone just sits on the splines and kind of rides against the web ( or at least thats what I would call it) of the 3-4 hub. To me it kind of seems like the cone would move a small amount in and out of the synchro ring and maybe drag a bit. But they have sold tons of these gear sets and lots of people in our group are running them and I've not heard any bad feedback.

[MarkWard]

2 things. I understood it was a press fit. Also, that is not exactly what I’d call a straight cut gear.
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[jordauto]

It’s Weddle’s “racing” gears and I don’t think they are marketed as “straight cut” and they definitely are not straight cut. Also not a press fit, it’s “floating” I asked the rep when I ordered them and he clarified that they just “float”. I have Weddle’s 3-4 hub so supposedly everything is made to work together. I’m not overly concerned, it’s just not what you expect to see.

[jordauto]

Mark, maybe you’re thinking of user “Gears” GT gears. Those are straight cut and I believe have a press for cone.

[MarkWard]

[Captain Pike]