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madmike
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5292
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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 Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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That t2 is so tiny  I've never seen one is all , like said "quick spoolin"
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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| Buggeee wrote: |
I just received this turbo kit from Spa Turbo in Brazil for $820 USD shipped to my door. I have no Idea what it is, never having built anything with a turbo. They said it's for a 1600 single carb. Appears to be a blow through. They said I could go up to a 1776 but not larger displacement due to the exhaust header size.
So I plan to build an engine for this kit. I am open to any ideas, from a locked dvda and a modified solex, to a crank sensor electronic ignition, to fuel injection, anything really worth considering for the menu. Just brainstorming here.
I have 1776 kit from crank to AA jugs and AA medium valve heads, discussed in my bubbletop mystery case thread, and I have a couple old 1600 dual ports that are getting torn down by my kids and I can use one of those cases as well. So basically the first bridge to cross is to find out what displacement this kit would support. The consensus seemed to be that the 1776 was a waste of a clearanced bubble top case so that case will get a larger displacement build with a stroker. The 1776 kit will get put into a stock case. The pipes on this turbo kit seem small so I'm thinking it matches to the smaller build?
Any ideas on what I have here?
Thank you all
| Buggeee wrote: |
Received timely and well-packed. The unboxing:
J-tube measurements in various denominations.
Header measurements in various denominations
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i cant wait till you have it on your vw. and the cost is good for guys that dont have a lot of money . good luck please post when its on your vw spencerfvee |
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jeffrey8164 
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3819
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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Maybe I built my NA 2276 prematurely.
I can’t be of any help as I have no turbo experience.
I’m watching with popcorn though.
Do you plan to put it on a Dyno to see some numbers?
If you have to stay 1600-1776, I’d stay with a 1600 just so there is something measurable from the 54 hp mark.
Now, we just need some racers to give us cam and valve theories and recommendations. Maybe it’ll be just fine with the stock heads and cam.
I see that you’re meticulously massaging a 72 Super. I assume the turbo engine will go into it. What were you thinking about before you knew about this kit?
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5481
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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| clonebug wrote: |
Timing needs are set more by IAT’s than boost numbers.
You will be limited by your intake temps which will be 8-11 lbs depending on ambient temps. 130 degree IAT’s are a critical point in my experience.
Those heads will be fine for a 1776 as is. I made almost 200 crank hp through stock heads.
Keep your lift below .425” and 6000 rpm. A stock cam will work but It will probably limit peak torque and hp to a fairly low rpm.
It all depends on how much money you want to throw at it....
You would be better off spending money on ignition and IAT cooling than go fast parts. |
This looks like the kind of mild turbo setup I asked about in the past. Stock longblock, 6-8 psi boost feeding a stock carb and a boost referenced fuel pump. Small enough not to need an intercooler (perhaps water injection on boost?) and perhaps not even a blow off valve. It isn't much more costly than a pair of 2 barrel Webers and good header. Might add as much power and help keep the rpm range of that power from creeping up the rpm band to places I don't like to take a stock crank (with no counterweights I don't like to exceed 4500rpm.)
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67rustavenger
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9772
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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I posted this in buggee's thread in the 68 up forum.
It's worth noting that the driver of the car can be called (an A$$hole) for his driving technique. But he appears to be running a Spa-Turbo kit in his car.
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
Thanks for the link as well!
This is how good it works! 
Link
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I'm pretty sure that this car has a built up engine and trans.
There are some fast turbo cars in my part of the country.
But the video posters car is ridiculously fast.
Maybe it's a twin carb setup. I can't read or understand spoken Portuguese. So the info is very incomplete. |
Anyway. It will be interesting to see what buggee finds while working out the details of his Spa-Turbo build.
I have the perfect engine sitting in my garage. The Spa kit would give the little SP some serious beans. 
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infiniteLoop
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Joined: October 09, 2020
Posts: 265
Location: Empire State
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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The video of the 'fusca' is not provided by SPA.  It could have any turbo system on it. |
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spencerfvee
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Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:57 am Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
I posted this in buggee's thread in the 68 up forum.
It's worth noting that the driver of the car can be called (an A$$hole) for his driving technique. But he appears to be running a Spa-Turbo kit in his car.
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
Thanks for the link as well!
This is how good it works!
Link
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I'm pretty sure that this car has a built up engine and trans.
There are some fast turbo cars in my part of the country.
But the video posters car is ridiculously fast.
Maybe it's a twin carb setup. I can't read or understand spoken Portuguese. So the info is very incomplete. |
Anyway. It will be interesting to see what buggee finds while working out the details of his Spa-Turbo build.
I have the perfect engine sitting in my garage. The Spa kit would give the little SP some serious beans. |
.....................................................................................................................................in my younger days i did some dumb things .but never any thing like this guy in the vid. he must of had a death wish. he could have killed him self and others. a vw bug is unsafe at the speeds he was going . if he hit one of the cars on that road he would be dead. when i was looking at the vid. i was waiting for his bug to crash into some one on that road .oh to be young and dumb. spencerfvee |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12740
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:17 am Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| This looks like the kind of mild turbo setup I asked about in the past. Stock longblock, 6-8 psi boost feeding a stock carb and a boost referenced fuel pump. Small enough not to need an intercooler (perhaps water injection on boost?) and perhaps not even a blow off valve. It isn't much more costly than a pair of 2 barrel Webers and good header. Might add as much power and help keep the rpm range of that power from creeping up the rpm band to places I don't like to take a stock crank (with no counterweights I don't like to exceed 4500rpm.) |
No, this little turbo kit will give you far more power than Webers and a header can ever hope to. It will also do it a good 1500 rpm lower than the carbs and header. And at the same cost as just the carbs!
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12740
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:32 am Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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| clonebug wrote: |
In the 7000 miles I did blowing through a Bocar 34 pict I never had any icing problems...
Trust me. It’s not an issue.... |
Of course not. Ice rarely if ever forms in the intake manifold down where the heat riser is. Secondly I was not talking about ice, I was talking about dropping out and pooling of raw gas at very low intake velocities at which time there isn't enough action from the turbo to heat anything. I suppose there could be some small amount of heat transferred from the turbine housing to the compressor housing under no boost conditions. Is that what gives you your 10* increase?
The heat riser on VW engines was never designed or intended to fix ice anyway. That is the job of the air cleaner preheat flap, hose and warm air pickup elbow.
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12740
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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To the OP If I were in possession of this turbo kit I would build the engine for what the turbo is designed for. OK maybe a small increase in displacement to bring the boost on a few hundred rpm sooner but that is it!
Bigger heads, porting, fancy cams and all that N/A junk is just a waste of time, money and parts for this mild street turbo setup. All that will happen is the cam and heads will kill the bottom end, the header and turbo will be undersized and kill the top end. It will make good power from about 2500 to 3500 rpm and then be pretty much done. You will not be happy with the results.
That kit will double the HP on a stock 1600 engine and give you a nice wide rpm range. With your 1776, stock heads and cam, you will be pushing 150 hp and the limits of that turbo and header already. Listen to the people that sold it to you. They are giving you the correct advice from their personal experiance!
Put all the fancy N/A parts back under the bench for an N/A build and just enjoy this low cost kick in the pants!
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buguy
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Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 4915
Location: Port Orange, FL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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| I agree. That is a tiny turbo. Probably best suited to essentially a stock engine. Which certainly could be no slouch. I boosted a stock engine and i loved it. For the dollar spent it, it was awesome. |
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NJ John
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Joined: September 21, 2007
Posts: 2224
Location: HdG, MD & NJ
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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That video is crazy. Reminds me of typical BS on Rt95, daily. Tuner crap.
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GARRICK.CLARK
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Joined: June 30, 2012
Posts: 1267
Location: Lancashire UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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| Agreed. Locked timing isn't the best, but 12 and 24 is still a tried and accepted thing to do |
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vamram
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Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7304
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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Bump....
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Dauz
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010
Posts: 1790
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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That fusca sounds just like the "race-taxi" kombi that had a porsche 993 bi-turbo in it.
btw @buggee, post questions and keep us updated |
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Lo Cash John
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Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 2246
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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Interesting little kit.
If you're on a tight budget, blow through the stock Solex 34 carb. Lots of info on modding Solex for blow through.
For ignition, a budget friendly option is to slightly modify and use a late model "dual vacuum" distributor. It'll advance on ported vacuum like a regular SVDA distributor but retard when the carb starts seeing boost. If you're pockets run a little deeper, go get a CB Performance Black Box with 4 bar MAP sensor and fully programable ignition timing.
No matter what option you go with, ditch the points and go electronic (I prefer Pertronix-II) and a nice hot coil. Just make sure the primary coil resistance (ohms) matches there electronic ignition you use.
I built a similar combo for a buddy of mine, however we did blow through Kadrons (Solex carbs). Much of the lessons learned there apply to what you are about to build.
https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=150579
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Dauz
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010
Posts: 1790
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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| If I had a small blow through project, I'd try an SU carb. |
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GARRICK.CLARK
Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2012
Posts: 1267
Location: Lancashire UK
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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| I used an SU for blow through and draw through. It was the same carb. |
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Dauz
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010
Posts: 1790
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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| GARRICK.CLARK wrote: |
| I used an SU for blow through and draw through. It was the same carb. |
Nice! |
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earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3984
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Buggee's Brazilian Turbo Kit |
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I wonder if you could use a 40mm Keihin CV off of a Harley in a draw through application, they have a accelerator pump in them. I have a couple of them I want to use on a VW single port motor some day.
eQ
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