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Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4)
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old_man
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
Yikes that sucks.
A Bluetooth snake camera can see 4th gear thru the oil filler hole.
Maybe a phone camera can peek in.
Put a tiny lightbulb inside the filler hole and maybe you can get a pic of 4th gear with your phone.

I suppose the drain magnet will tell some tales.


I'll be honest, I don't think I am getting out of this one without tearing it apart.
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old_man
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

AndyBees wrote:
If the Transmission has not been jumping out of 4th gear, I suspect teeth as Mark suggested.

So, why would teeth just strip off or begin the process of shearing off (based on your descriptions)? Either as Mark suggested, metal fatigue or the 4th gear bearing disintegrated allowing sloppy misalignment.

Either way, your trans will need to be completely disassembled, inspected and all the salvageable parts thoroughly cleaned, including the case, etc.

With 3rd gear being next door, gives thought that the front main shaft bearing could be the culprit. Of course, depending where it all started, other areas and bearings are likely affected.

Keep us updated!


The only thing i can think of is that the AHU going up a hill in 4th proved too much for that 0.78 4th gear. If I don't end up just getting a altogether transmission maybe I should go for straight cut gears this time? How much louder can it really be in a single cab truck?
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DanHoug
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

iff'n i had a diesel, i'd totally go with straight cut gears. besides, always kinda liked the whine of truck transmissions... part of the music of the road.
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erste
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

The GT straight cut 4th isn’t loud at all (in a TDI) and I hardly noticed a difference. There’s a kind of “oscillating” noise at certain speeds, but I wouldn’t call it loud. It’s more of a resonant vibration that you kind of feel if that makes sense.
Put as many GT parts into it as po$$ible!
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old_man
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:02 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

erste wrote:

Put as many GT parts into it as po$$ible!


I'm trying to avoid the $$$ as much as possible.

Thanks for the feed back about the straight cut gear.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

erste wrote:
The GT straight cut 4th isn’t loud at all (in a TDI) and I hardly noticed a difference. There’s a kind of “oscillating” noise at certain speeds, but I wouldn’t call it loud. It’s more of a resonant vibration that you kind of feel if that makes sense.
Put as many GT parts into it as po$$ible!


awwww.... it'd be cool if it sounded like an old Land Rover! RRrrrrrrrrrrr <shift> Rrr-Rrr-RRRRrrrrrrrrrrrr
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AndyBees
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

When you say "straight cut" are those the thick cut gears offered by Weddle? If not, does anyone have links, pics, sources, etc.

I installed a Weddle 3rd and 4th (1.14 and .77) in a DK trans and put it in service, August, 2012. Today, the trans has well over 85k miles on it. The gears have always "whined" when coasting in gear at low speeds (when more audible). I did replace all bearings except the Pinion Bearing. The OE 1st & 2nd gears are quiet as they should be. So, I've never considered the whine to be bearing related........... just gears!

Anyway, my ALH TDI has a Stage 1 Tune. More that 25k of those miles mentioned above were pulling a 1200 lb popup camper with at least another 400-500 lbs of stuff on board. And, one trip there were four adults and all of their stuff.

So, unless the gear(s) had manufactured issues, I doubt the gear gave-up the ghost just because an AHU TDI was pushing it up hill.
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DanHoug
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

just a little something for those of us that love the whine of straight cut gears!

Link

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erste
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

AndyBees wrote:
When you say "straight cut" are those the thick cut gears offered by Weddle? If not, does anyone have links, pics, sources, etc.

So, unless the gear(s) had manufactured issues, I doubt the gear gave-up the ghost just because an AHU TDI was pushing it up hill.

GT Straight cut 4th
Andy, the straight cut 4th isn’t from Weddle. Samba member ‘gears’ has been making them for the past few years. There was material missing from my 4th (Weddle .77) after 10-15k miles so going with a stronger 4th made sense. There are a few threads that go into more detail about them, but there’s the classifieds link.
And I agree with your last statement.

Good luck old_man! keep us posted
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

Did you use an OEM 4th gear?
OEM 4th gears can break at “the Weld”.
Syncro stuck in 4th
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old_man
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
Did you use an OEM 4th gear?
OEM 4th gears can break at “the Weld”.
Syncro stuck in 4th


Interesting. I reused all the gears except for the R&P.
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jordauto
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

Any update on the carnage? I'm finally ready to do the final assembly of mine and was curious as to what failed before I do.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

jordauto wrote:
Any update on the carnage? I'm finally ready to do the final assembly of mine and was curious as to what failed before I do.


I got called into work zero notice sometime overnight Friday/Saturday and that sort of killed my motivation for the weekend. Hopefully I will start this weekend baring anything work related coming up. I will post picture for you as soon as I take them.

My advice to you is to take lots of pictures of it during reassembly. I had a few moments last time of 'Shit, did I remember to put in that circlip?' after assembly. With pictures you can go back and see that in fact you did put in the circlip. You're gear paint pattern looks deadly. Good job.
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old_man
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

Well here is what I have so far.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is a picture of the oil. This is all the oil I drained out. 500ml.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Anyone have an experience with this. Does anyone think there is anything salvageable inside my box including my new R&K and buy peloquin?
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

I recall the 091/1 holds 4 qts. I'd have to check to be sure. Where did all the fluid go? There is zero way to determine what is salvagable without taking it apart and inspecting.

If you have a Peloquin, it's likely salvageable if that's what you are asking. It can be disassembled and cleaned out.

Surprisingly, that's not much on the magnet if it sheared 4th gear.
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old_man
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
I recall the 091/1 holds 4 qts. I'd have to check to be sure. Where did all the fluid go? There is zero way to determine what is salvagable without taking it apart and inspecting.

If you have a Peloquin, it's likely salvageable if that's what you are asking. It can be disassembled and cleaned out.

Surprisingly, that's not much on the magnet if it sheared 4th gear.


Ya, it holds about 4L-ish.

The Peloquin looks fine. Where did the oil go? It's on bottom of the oil pan now. I have always had a bit of an oil leak. I assumed and still do that it was the rear main seal because the oil coming out was jet ink black. As you would expect of a TDI. I just noticed this time the oil underneath was a nice golden colour. That is definitely not engine oil.

Remember that shuttering that would happen when I accelerated in 4th gear and that I thought I could almost smell gear oil? Well the big question on my mind is was the lack of oil the source failure or did something else start coming loose that caused an oil leak that then caused destruction. Pics to follow.

I think the lack of stuff on the magnet is 2 fold. 1) As soon as it happened I pulled over. 2) It happened due to lack of oil. There was no oil to wash the fragments/dust off and onto the magnet.
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old_man
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

I think this is where the oil came from. It doesn't form a seal anymore. I don't know why. Was input shaft moving around, is that possible?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So this is the ring and pinion. It doesn't look polished but it only has about 5K mi on it. No pieces missing. I think I am going to reuse it because I think it's still serviceable and it seems like every supplier is out of stock of this ration.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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This greeted me when I took the cover off.
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There actually was no bearing left. Just gone.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by old_man on Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

The outer lip of the input shaft seal is not what keeps the oil in. The inner lip does that. The outer lip just keeps clutch dust out of the seal and likely sealed when the input shaft was centered by the pilot bearing in the crank.
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old_man
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

Actually black soot from oil burning. Impressive when you think about it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm not sure where those balls when. I don't even know how they got out. Bearing came out on one piece.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Yup.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


4th gear cracked syncro.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The closer the bearing was to the nose the more golden/burnt it was. By the pinion there was no evidence that anything happened.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It's going to be fun washing all of this.
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This stupid thing is loose. Oil slinger?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I don't know what to do about this. I guess the ideal would be to get an aluminium gear carrier. It would be nice to reuse it.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In short, I don't know why I would randomly get shuttering when accelerating in 4th after being on the highway for many hours. I assumed it was something to do with my DMF clutch being soaked in oil. Maybe it caused the oil slinger thing to come loose and then it was only a matter of time? Is that a plausible theory?

The way forward:

-Clean clean clean.
-Replace all bearings (It would be nice to keep the pinion bearing but I think everyone is about to tell me that is not a good idea).
-Procure a new 4th gear set, this might prove to be difficult because it is showing out of stock everywhere I look. It's a 0.78. Should I just get a GT straight cut one?
-Put the damned thing back together.

The interesting part is that there is someone a mere 3hrs away that has a spare South African 5 speed. He want's to sell it but only as a package with his Doka. In the long run that would probably be the more expensive option as it would no doubt require re gearing but it is interesting.
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DanHoug
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) Reply with quote

oh my. my heart cries for you (or your transaxle). if you got only 500ml out of it, it was death by starvation. i have no idea what is salvageable but lots of signs of heat stress. i will be so impressed if this is rebuilt!
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