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Wreck Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014 Posts: 1211 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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NoDents wrote: |
I purchased a Sharpbuilt complete fan shroud and front & rear tin replacements (all fiberglass).
Type 4 Stroker. I ended up widening the engine compartment sheet metal to allow the manifolds to clear. I have Porsche heads. Not sure if VW heads would clear OK without widening.
Also needed to cut down the "chimney" to lower the fan (fan from 911). |
Very nice , what size ,any power numbers ? I can’t remember modifying the engine bay in the 68 bug I had in the eighties (stock size 2lt), both my other conversions have different trans mounts to stock , so the engines may sit higher than stock . The Ghia has a 103x78 with 5.325 rods , so only 4mm a side wider than stock.
The main difference with the Porsche heads are the spark plug angle and exhaust valve guide boss , the width would be the same . |
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NoDents Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2017 Posts: 438 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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103x84 = 2.8 ltr.
Approximately 1/4" shims under the cylinders. _________________ No Dents
1963 Bug - Sold in 1980
1966 Karmann Ghia Convertible - Stolen in 1988
1971 Karmann Ghia Convertible, resto/mod COMPLETED 10/2020 |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Wreck Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014 Posts: 1211 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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The oil cooler I'm guessing ? And no I removed it , I have a Sharpbuilt 911 shroud but the alternator housing was fabricated from a wheel rim and originally the bus alternator fitted with a 6 blade radiator fan with the stock cooler .
Ran like that for over ten years until someone mentioned to me the airflow was not the same over the cylinders . I made a ducting to divide the air evenly into 4 ,no CHT gauges at this stage , big mistake . The air does not go where you think it does , i.e straight back off the fan , it spins to the right . My findings might be a little different because of the different alternator , changing to a Porsche fan did not change the CHT reading .
I had restricted flow to #3 which also had a large portion directed to the oil cooler . result was a partial dropped seat .
I then started fitting CHT monitoring gear , I moved the oil cooler air from #3 to #1 (this cylinder is always over cooled on a 4 cylinder 911 shroud) .
I also increased the shroud size to #3 for more air to flow there.
eventually removed the oil cooler and fitted more external coolers that are controlled by a Mocal sandwich plate , so all the air goes to cool the heads/cylinders , the best solution in a hot environment with a heavy bus . Also the oil gets to temperature quicker .
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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Yes I meant cooler not filter, the photo shows the cooler in the original location, so that is an old photo if you moved it and added the external.
As for the were the air goes, when I was doing my research Joe of Oregon Performance mentioned the air flow problems with the Porsche fans, lot of power but not in the right locations. See you figured it out.
Joe was an amazing guy, you would appreciated his air flow devices, ha.
Little strips of what looked like toilet paper placed in different locations till he got the air flow to hit his targets.
Wow you got A/C. I bought a new bug in 69 with A/C was so happy when it stolen a few weeks later. The case iron compressor weighted more then my engine, it had fans under the car, great for ground clearance, the 1500 cc engine almost came to a stop when I turned it on.
I made an air compressor out of it. Still working at my office garage.
While at old photo, my portable electric heater. Put in on the floor passengers side. Take it out for charging.
Last two was a surprise I found under my car cover !!!
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/qq238/nextg...;crop=fill
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/qq238/nextg...;crop=fill
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/qq238/nextgenusa/P1010608.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/qq238/nextg...;crop=fill
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/qq238/nextg...;crop=fill _________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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Wreck Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014 Posts: 1211 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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The bottom two pictures are a device that stop rats and mice eating precious parts of your pride and joy ! |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Wreck Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014 Posts: 1211 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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a little off topic but hell I like critters I noticed a strange head poking out of a possum box , that is above where the engine pictures were taken . Turned out this python wanted some possum dinner . For size comparison that steel box in the picture is 100mmX100mm
Back to the topic , I'm working on my gearbox at the moment so took some pictures of the conversion and clearances etc . It is great that the factory type4 join of the top and bottom cylinder tins is the correct height to fit type 1 rear tins with a little trimming . My engine is about 6mm wider than stock , 4mm longer cylinders ,then 1mm decked from the heads .
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Avi750 Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2020 Posts: 30 Location: Israel
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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so it is recommended to have the oil stick from the bottom of the case?
can you please share a link for this stick
just a thought regarding the cooling technic...
lets say I would not have a doghouse cooler and any shroud and just 2 remote oil radiators from the oil pump, will it work?
what will be the disadvantage of this concept?
thanks for all of your info
Avi |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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Avi if you are using a the Cali Style you use a stock T-1 fanhousing it has to be either a 36 hp shroud or another stock shroud that you cut the sides off.
Look the photo below, only the 36 hp shroud fits, notice how close it is to my carb. Any other shroud will be too wide, some guys cut the sides and reweld.
So most guy that do the Cali Style conversion figure why not buy the 36 with the dog house. You are looking at one of the first T-4 upright conversions and has never been removed from the bug for 30 years.
As for the dip stick location, if the T-4 is from a 914 the dip stick will be in the stock T-1 location. If not an adaptor is sold to fit at the bottom side of the engine. You can see my stock T-1 dip stick in the stock location.
My opinion never use additional oil cooler, too much additional hoses and unless you are building a monster they are not needed.
_________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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Avi if you are using a the Cali Style you use a stock T-1 fanhousing it has to be either a 36 hp shroud or another stock shroud that you cut the sides off.
Look the photo below, only the 36 hp shroud fits, notice how close it is to my carb. Any other shroud will be too wide, some guys cut the sides and reweld.
So most guy that do the Cali Style conversion figure why not buy the 36 with the dog house. You are looking at one of the first T-4 upright conversions and has never been removed from the bug for 30 years.
As for the dip stick location, if the T-4 is from a 914 the dip stick will be in the stock T-1 location. If not an adaptor is sold to fit at the bottom side of the engine. You can see my stock T-1 dip stick in the stock location.
My opinion never use additional oil cooler, too much additional hoses and unless you are building a monster they are not needed.
_________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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Wreck Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014 Posts: 1211 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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Avi750 wrote: |
so it is recommended to have the oil stick from the bottom of the case?
can you please share a link for this stick
just a thought regarding the cooling technic...
lets say I would not have a doghouse cooler and any shroud and just 2 remote oil radiators from the oil pump, will it work?
what will be the disadvantage of this concept?
thanks for all of your info
Avi |
That is a home made adaptor ,just a piece of aluminium , the tube is from and old worn out type 1 case . I filled the engine with 3litres and remarked the Type 1 dip stick .
Did you mean no shroud at all , just oil cooling ? That won't work . for 150hp in a warm/hot country I would recommend an aftermarket 36HP shape(no heater ducts) shroud with that takes the bigger fan . |
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Avi750 Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2020 Posts: 30 Location: Israel
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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regarding the dipstick, my case is type 4 so I'll need to connect the adapter for it, right?
the idea to not have the shroud was to free some area for A/C supercharger and intercooler, but it will not cool the heads, right?
so I'll buy the upright kit with the dipstick adp...
thanks a lot guys for your advices and all the info, I'll update the progress...
Avi |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4925 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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Pancake cooled T4 will fit in back of Ghia with sheetmetal trimming / mods -
bnc _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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APPLEGREENVW Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003 Posts: 2379 Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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Avi750 wrote: |
Hi all
I got a T4 case (I assume it's type 4, the num on it is: S112... 004 101 102A... with 100mm hole diameter for the cylinder)
So the question is, how can I fit this engine to my 73' Ghia?
I didn't stated the building of the engine yet, so all recommendations are welcome
Appreciate your help
Avi |
Check out, Motor7710 youtube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXGK7qpwBhs _________________ Parts for sale https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=APPLEGREENVW
02/76 Beetle sedan |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: How can I install T4 engine on Ghia? |
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By the way....the top mounted dipstick was also in all two and four door 411 and 412 sedans. Only the bus and 411 and 412 wagons used the lower case mounted dipstick.
Ray |
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