Empi Chromoly Gland Nut Torque

[carguytroy]

Another dumb question for everyone. Bought a Chromoly gland nut from the local bug shop. Empi brand. What should I torque this to? The washer is dished so I’m guessing that it goes on with the outer part of the washer seated towards the crank so when it’s torqued the center of the washer gets pushed up against the flywheel?

[Glenn]

I torqued my Berg forged gland nut to 425ft-lbs.

Do you trust the EMPI enough?
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[mark tucker]

Ive never seen a bevel washer there... be sure to knock any sharp edges off the washer so it dont dig in as well as the flats on the nut/bolt need to have a ever so slight chamfer(about .040" should do fine) that leeps it from digging in.if either digs in the torque will not be a true reading.also make sure the dowels dont stick past the flywheel and contact the washer....I use molly lube on my nuts& washer good.I shoot for just over 400 pounds. dont ferget the oring and oiling the oring& seal.make sure there is no sharp edge to the crank that may eff up the oring...and..make sure the flywheel hasent been draged on the floor leaving a rough spot on the thrust serface as well as be sure the leading edge has no burrs to eff up the seal and no burs on the id to gouge the crank....good luck!!

[carguytroy]

[Glenn]

The one that came with the Berg was flat and the edges beveled. I've built over a dozen hi-po engine with them and never a problem.

http://www.geneberg.com/product_info.php?cPath=2719&products_id=297

_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[modok]

If it seems like a copy of a scat gland nut, then it probably is.
Tho I don't know why they'd even try t rip it off, the scat gland nuts are already proven and dirt cheap. maybe it is a scat gland nut

[carguytroy]

Here’s a pic of the washer and gland nut. Washer seems a little weird but maybe it’s normal. Description says “350 and above” for torque. Is 350 enough? I keep seeing higher specs.

[modok]

Not exactly same as scat from the look of it. 38 or 36mm head?
350 is good guess IMO.
Lube the threads and under the head with moly grease.
I see some pink stuff on there, maybe cam lube, that's probably fine.
Or maybe it's arby's sauce.
I'm not going to try tasting it.
Will take your word for it thanks.

[Splitdog]

You'll see when you get it up there........the difference between 350 and 450lbs torque is about 1/16th turn. If that.
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#notacallooker

[oprn]

I have never found a need to go over the stock torque on the gland nut and never had a failure. But then again I have not build a fire breathing monster engine either. Not in my budget.

I would be very concerned about taking the gland nut torque to those values. That is a very tiny thread to be putting that much stress on. At some point you will be weakening the connection, not improving it, torqueing it to the brink of failure!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[ZEKE65]

Its called a Belleville washer. They ack as a spring to maintain load on the treads if things relax a little after torqueing. They help to prevent the nut from coming loose. My CB washer also had some crown to it.
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1965 VW Sedan, 1968 C10 Step BB, 99 C5

[Vanapplebomb]

To the OP...

What crank do you have?

I ask because I am a firm believer in matching tensile strengths of fasteners. It makes no sense to have a high tensile strength chromoly gland nut with a stock crank, in the same way that it doesn’t make sense to thread a class 12.9 bolt into a class 5 nut. It also makes no sense to use a stock nut on an aftermarket chromoly crank. Now, using a chromoly gland nut on an aftermarket forged 4340 crank, that’s talking sense.

I have always found mismatched fasteners to be less than reliable. Because they stretch differently, one will always take the brunt on the strain, and yields sooner than it otherwise would have.

I see these failures frequently in industry, and more often than not the simplest fix is to change the base material, or use a different tensile strength fastener. Sometimes components come in assembled with impressive looking high tensile strength fasteners (ex 12.9), which look great, but they either work loose or pull the threads out of the base material, particularly if it’s a casting. Replacing the bolts right off the bat with lower grade fasteners (ex 8.8 or 10.9) actually can make the entire assembly stronger and less prone to catastrophic failure, even if the clamping loaf is slightly lower.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[carguytroy]

[Glenn]

Here's my 2¢:

If I can avoid anything with a EMPI name I will.

But there are plenty of people out there with EMPI cranks, rods and other internal parts that are just fine.

It's the cheap chrome, engine tin and other stuff I absolutely would not use.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[carguytroy]

[mark tucker]

keep the salt away. also....if the washer fits loose as 99.3 % do I use a rubber or sily cone oring to center it on the nut .when it go's off center it throws the crank balance off quite a bit...well while balancing the crank it does so...yes it throws the balance off....A hard plastic snug fitting spacer wood be better, as it would hole it centered better.Ill probably make those for my next 2 motors.that way the washer cant go off center at all when twerking my ass off.

[Splitdog]

[carguytroy]

Should buy a different one or just run it? Kinda nervous about it now.

[modok]

The original gland nuts are made from a "screw machine steel"
such as 12L14 alloy.

a 20$ gland nut being 50% stronger material the original is totally plausible with modern machining and materials.
Does empi know anything about making bolts? yes, since they have a successful line of CV axles, also plausible.

Can only guess since I never saw one, but it's not that big a deal.

I was thinking the same thing as Glenn, Us fanatics tend to be more interested in better stuff, rather than empi stuff, but the empi stuff may be totally fine. If you can't find a problem with it then that's good enough.

[67rustavenger]