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automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage, does it kick down
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:13 am    Post subject: automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage, does it kick down Reply with quote

I'm puzzling through the best hook up for an after market cruise control.

I have an active thread on my installation but I am seeking photos of the factory cruise control linkage.

My biggest concern/wonder is how the factory cruise activates the full throttle Automatic kick down function when pulling steep grades.

As I understand the kick down function, once the throttle body is at Wide Open Throttle, the spring on the shaft at the throttle body compresses a bit as the gas pedal pulls the linkage arm on the transmission just a little bit farther activating the kick down function.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm thinking that you cannot pull cruise at the throttle body and have any kick down function.

The only way to get kick down is by pulling on the rod that runs to the throttle body from the transmission lever.

Does the factory unit pull the rod or the throttle body linkage?

Thanks for any photos and letting me know if your factory unit provides kick down.

Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: Photo of automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage Reply with quote

Good question. No photos, but I believe you are correct. To have full range, you’d need to operate the relay lever at the trans. I’ve got a vague memory about a warning to use cruise on flat dry conditions. My cruise doesn’t like going down hills where gravity is taking over.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Photo of automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage Reply with quote

We own both manual and auto vans with factory cruise. They both are hooked up identically, at the top of the throttle body and our auto will kickdown if you hold the column switch to accelerate going up a hill.
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tbd
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Photo of automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage Reply with quote

I have a picture due to an age related problem with the linkage between the bellow and the TB.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Other than the linkage the only thing I see there is the additional spring. Disregard the circles for this reply. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Photo of automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage Reply with quote

tbd wrote:
I have a picture due to an age related problem with the linkage between the bellow and the TB.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Other than the linkage the only thing I see there is the additional spring. Disregard the circles for this reply. Smile


Nice photo!

Do you have kick down on hills?

Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Photo of automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage Reply with quote

I just looked up the cruise control in the Bentley.

I can see no provision for kick down operation?

Seems odd that VW would install cruise in an Automatic and ignore the kick down feature...........

Dave
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tbd
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Photo of automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:


Do you have kick down on hills?

Dave


Sorry, that van has been gone for a couple of years. I don't remember if it had kick down for hills. I do remember it giving up once going up a long hill out east, after that I just managed the long hills manually. Other than that the cruise control handled going up hills just like the current van, which doesn't have cruise.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Photo of automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
I just looked up the cruise control in the Bentley.

I can see no provision for kick down operation?

Seems odd that VW would install cruise in an Automatic and ignore the kick down feature...........

Dave


Hi Dave!
The linkage has a built in slider, it's not fixed, it slides between the metal wire, so it can be over riden, although I would see it slide the other way around which wouldn't apply here... You do have a spring on the throttle cable, but sale thing, the other way around.
Interesting
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Photo of automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage Reply with quote

That photo I posted isn't mine, I grabbed it out of tge gallery to show the automatic rod and over ride spring assembly.

Mine does have the proper throttle return spring.

I understand now how the VW connector works, the over ride and how it slides when not activated.

What I do NOT grasp is the lack of a system to utilize the kick down function of the Automatic transmission.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Photo of automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage Reply with quote

on my 89 Carat parts van with auto, there was no physical mechanism to engage the transmission. all action was at the throttle body with the arm that moved the throttle plate independent of the rigid rod to the auto trans. and the vacuum actuator isn't terribly strong to move much else.

dunno anything about auto trans... but can't see any mechanism that it would kick down when on cruise. someone mentioned their auto would kick down on cruise.... so curious about that. edumacate me!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage, does it kick down Reply with quote

Say you were in a standard shift van with the cruise pulling you along. If you came to a hill, you’d downshift and the clutch pedal switch disengages the cruise. In your automatic, cruise is attempting to maintain a set speed. The cruise has full throttle a available on an automatic, which for overpasses is likely fine. Your not going to be looking to pass with cruise, and if it can’t pull drive, you’d have to use your foot just like a manual setup. Once you cleared the hill, it would upshift and the cruise would take over.

That said, your cruise would allow you to attach it to your trans relay lever and could operate the way you are envisioning. Probably overkill though.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage, does it kick down Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Say you were in a standard shift van with the cruise pulling you along. If you came to a hill, you’d downshift and the clutch pedal switch disengages the cruise. In your automatic, cruise is attempting to maintain a set speed. The cruise has full throttle a available on an automatic, which for overpasses is likely fine. Your not going to be looking to pass with cruise, and if it can’t pull drive, you’d have to use your foot just like a manual setup. Once you cleared the hill, it would upshift and the cruise would take over.

That said, your cruise would allow you to attach it to your trans relay lever and could operate the way you are envisioning. Probably overkill though.


I agree about the stick shift.
But
The very design of the automatic is to automatically sense the need and down shift when you encounter a hill to maintain speed. Once you regain your speed it upshifts.

Now, I don't expect to climb a significant pass with the cruise control on but to cruise a moderately hilly area with some hills? A road like I-80 in Northern N.J. comes to mind, it is far from flat but the roads are straight and you will lose speed on some of the longer grades.
It seems silly to neuter the design of the machine with where you hook up the cruise pull point.

I do think we've gleaned our answer about automatics downshifting while VW installed cruise is engaged...... they don't.

This down shift ability may be partly why GoWesty decided to pull at the gas pedal.

Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:44 am    Post subject: Re: automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage, does it kick down Reply with quote

Dave, when your tooling down I80 with your automatic, do you find it needs to downshift? Since you have a cable servo, and are installing it, I don’t see why you can’t attach to the relay lever under the van.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage, does it kick down Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Dave, when your tooling down I80 with your automatic, do you find it needs to downshift? Since you have a cable servo, and are installing it, I don’t see why you can’t attach to the relay lever under the van.


There are times, not frequently but long grades ending in a short rise.... yes.
Heading East after the Delaware Water Gap and then again nearing Hackettstown.

I think I will make a fastening point utilizing the top right engine mount/starter bolt nut.
I will mount the pull cable to this bracket I make and then clamp to the accelerator rod near the throttle body.

The worst that can happen is that I fail and then I'll move it to the throttle body lever with the ball for the factory cruise.

Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: automatic 2.1 factory cruise control linkage, does it kick down Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
MarkWard wrote:
Dave, when your tooling down I80 with your automatic, do you find it needs to downshift? Since you have a cable servo, and are installing it, I don’t see why you can’t attach to the relay lever under the van.


There are times, not frequently but long grades ending in a short rise.... yes.
Heading East after the Delaware Water Gap and then again nearing Hackettstown.

I think I will make a fastening point utilizing the top right engine mount/starter bolt nut.
I will mount the pull cable to this bracket I make and then clamp to the accelerator rod near the throttle body.

The worst that can happen is that I fail and then I'll move it to the throttle body lever with the ball for the factory cruise.

Dave


I still think it would be easier to connect directly to the relay lever on the automatic. That's the same location the gas pedal pulls from. It would be a much cleaner install and leave your unobtanium rod intact.
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