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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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The one-side-only wear of 4th gear teeth isn't the manufacturer's "fault". Rather, it's wear that can be expected on an undersized helical gear, when powered by a more powerful-than-stock engine. The only real solution is a straight-cut gear. (You don't have to search around Europe for those Euro OEM-style .780 gears if you want one. German Transaxle has a few in stock ..) _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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old_man Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018 Posts: 1381 Location: Newfoundland
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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gears wrote: |
The one-side-only wear of 4th gear teeth isn't the manufacturer's "fault". Rather, it's wear that can be expected on an undersized helical gear, when powered by a more powerful-than-stock engine. The only real solution is a straight-cut gear. (You don't have to search around Europe for those Euro OEM-style .780 gears if you want one. German Transaxle has a few in stock ..) |
I sent you an email earlier about getting a gear set from you (got a reply already). Europe or US supply makes little difference to me, usually the same shipping cost. Are you and Weddle about the same price when it comes to replacement seals and bearings?
How much louder is a straight cut 4th? I'm hoping not to bad considering I have a single cab and not a van. |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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Straight-cut 4th is a bit noisier, but worth it in every other way. We're working to make each batch a bit quieter, if possible ..
I don't actually sell direct any longer, but German Transaxle (and Rancho) have most parts on their shelf (although I think they're temporarily B/O on .755 & .775 Straight-cut). _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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old_man Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018 Posts: 1381 Location: Newfoundland
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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gears wrote: |
Straight-cut 4th is a bit noisier, but worth it in every other way. We're working to make each batch a bit quieter, if possible ..
I don't actually sell direct any longer, but German Transaxle (and Rancho) have most parts on their shelf (although I think they're temporarily B/O on .755 & .775 Straight-cut). |
Gotcha. I understand who I was emailing now. Well, I guess for an extra $200 over the price of a normal gear I will try to straight cut on in my burnt out gear box. They said they were in stock, maybe there were talking about a helical cut instead.
Any plans on making a wishbone or double helical gear set one day? Or is it too impractical for such small gears? |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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Exactly.. not practical with dinky gears, and even more reliant on a true-running gear pair. Straight-cut is KISS .. shoulda done it years ago. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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tjet Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 3533 Location: CA & NM
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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Why not try a taller tire so you can select a more conservative 4th gear? |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2328 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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tjet wrote: |
Why not try a taller tire so you can select a more conservative 4th gear? |
Here's some numbers to compare...
185/75/R14 = 810 Revolutions per mile
215/75/R15 = 729 Revolutions per mile (size I've been running with my TDI)
4.57 Ring & Pinion and a .77 4th gear
70 MPH with 185 tires requires 3325 RPMs (roughly)
70 MPH with 215 tires requires 3000 RPMs (roughly)
This is based on an Excel Spreadsheet set-up and is very close to real world with my 215 tires using Van Cafe steelies.
I calibrated the Jetta Cluster Odometer and Speedometer to be virtually spot-on with my GPS.... several long road trips makes one a liar by less than 1/50th of 1% with distance and the speed is 2 mph slow just like the Jetta.. _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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erste Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2013 Posts: 1110 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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AndyBees, I look forward to seeing your tear down and build thread after so many miles.
old_man, I don't find the straight cut 4th loud at all. Like I think I said before, this is in a TDI though, which is only quiet when it's shut off. I have heard a kind of oscillating sound, but it's less of a noise and more something I feel through the chassis. I think that's the straight cut gear.
gears, We're truly lucky that you let some of your ingenuity spill over into the vanagon world. Thank you. |
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old_man Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018 Posts: 1381 Location: Newfoundland
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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Well, parts finally came in the mail and I found some time to assemble all this.
From L to R here is the old, incorrect new, and correct new. I still don't know if I got the wrong part number or if this was a weird manufacturing fault.
New clutch installed with a pilot bearing this time.
I forgot how I help the clutch last time for tightening so I improvised this time using a gear puller arm.
The gear stacks.
I was moving along until I realized I forgot to order a bearing. It really really sucks cause I could have had this finished by tomorrow for sure. I leave for work Thursday and I had really wished this would have been out of my hair before that.
Here is the part I am missing. $100 to ship one bearing + at least another $50 UPS will charge me on the back end when it shows up.
Luckily for me I am travelling to the UK so I will see if brickwerks can just ship it to my hotel. I'll update when I continue with assembly. |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2328 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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Old Man, that web site gouges on shipping in my opinion. _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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old_man Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018 Posts: 1381 Location: Newfoundland
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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AndyBees wrote: |
Old Man, that web site gouges on shipping in my opinion. |
It's Weddle. I don't think they do it on purpose. Probably just how the UPS shipping calculator works. |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2328 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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old_man wrote: |
AndyBees wrote: |
Old Man, that web site gouges on shipping in my opinion. |
It's Weddle. I don't think they do it on purpose. Probably just how the UPS shipping calculator works. |
Yeah, I just didn't want to use their namesake.
I've ordered roughly the same weight from the West Coast much cheaper than from them being almost in the same location. Also, I've purchased Ring and Pinions from a guy in Quebec (recently) far cheaper............ I mean far cheaper than the price you're showing for that bearing!
I suppose being in New Foundland is probably the kicker .... Island or mainland! (would love to come visit the island) We were in Sydney, NS in September, 2019 and was tempted to ferry over! _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.
Last edited by AndyBees on Tue May 11, 2021 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17114 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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So no straight cut 4th? _________________ ☮️ |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2328 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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Mark, the straight-cut 4th is there! _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17114 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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Didn’t see the mate. Curious to hear how it sounds. _________________ ☮️ |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2328 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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The mate is laying under the pinion shaft! _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17114 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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AndyBees wrote: |
The mate is laying under the pinion shaft! |
Noticed when you pointed it out b4. _________________ ☮️ |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2328 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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old_man Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018 Posts: 1381 Location: Newfoundland
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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They are a UK place. About $25 to ship which is comparable to the other UK vendors (brickwerks, justcampers, campervanculture...etc). Shipping is so weird. |
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old_man Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018 Posts: 1381 Location: Newfoundland
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4) |
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I forgot to post 2 pictures.
I had to clean the case. I decided to use my pressure washer. Just water, no solvent. It worked surprisingly well. Got rid of everything, even oil residue. Case doesn't even have a oily feel on the inside. I left the outside alone.
I also decided to repurpose that 4th gear. I made the second half of the VW 2052 tool. That tool from Weddle is $230 and a new 4th gear from GT is $569 so it isn't totally a waste. New tool is on the right, tool on the left is to remove the diff adjusters and the top tool is the first half of VW 2052 (bought from a member in Quebec).
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