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Eskamobob1 Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2016 Posts: 541 Location: South OC SoCal
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:56 pm Post subject: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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Hey guys,
I got a disk break kit with a 2.5" drop and the new spindles have some galling on the upper bearing seat. Are these safe to use? My previous spindles (or at least the one I didn't jack up by accident) have 0 galling at all with darn near 100k miles on them.... you can feel it with a finger, but just barely. My gut reaction is "no go", but am I over reacting?
_________________ '74 - front disks/lots more work to do |
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raydog Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1163 Location: Cape Cod
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Drink break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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Just get rid of any high spots. The bearings have their own races to ride on. Looks like imperfections in the metal. _________________ Come on, It's not rocket science. KISS |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51130 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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That's not "galling", it looks like a flaw in the raw part before machining from here, are those cast?
Run them if you dare, personally I'd return them and shop elsewhere... _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Eskamobob1 Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2016 Posts: 541 Location: South OC SoCal
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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busdaddy wrote: |
That's not "galling", it looks like a flaw in the raw part before machining from here, are those cast?
Run them if you dare, personally I'd return them and shop elsewhere... |
Its a pressed in spindle with what looks like a cast backing. As far as I can tell, they should just be the bog standard empire fare. And yah. Galling may not be the best word. Bjt looks like it was after machining since there are some small raised sections. Tbh, if its not dangerous to run I dont realy care about it _________________ '74 - front disks/lots more work to do |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4025 Location: WA
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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Sure it's only one wheel you have 3 others just kidding if you cant feel it with your finger nails (raised not pits) it's fine, remember "if it don't fit quit and send it back. |
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infiniteLoop Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2020 Posts: 265 Location: Empire State
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:48 am Post subject: Re: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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The bearings are not a press fit to the spindle so they directly ride on it. |
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Matt Wilson Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2005 Posts: 2408 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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You could swap your disc break kit for a disc brake kit _________________ 1972 Standard Beetle
1969 Baja Beetle |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15982 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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I would not be bothered by those marks as long as the inner bearing will slide over the spindle and fully seat against the flange. The bearing does not spin on the spindle. The ID of the bearing slip fits over the spindle. The OD of the race is press fit into the drum/disc. As long as the bearing seats fully and is not a loose fit, run it. _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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stevebaz Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2008 Posts: 189 Location: El Monte CA
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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looks like rust pits to me. I would run them instead of the hassle to return. |
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infiniteLoop Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2020 Posts: 265 Location: Empire State
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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Quote: |
he OD of the race is press fit into the drum/disc. As long as the bearing seats fully and is not a loose fit, run it.
_________________ |
Thanks for the enlightenment!
What keeps the race stationary to the spindle? |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7300 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:36 am Post subject: Re: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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The rollers in the bearing are what spins...I think. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15982 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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infiniteLoop wrote: |
What keeps the race stationary to the spindle? |
"Friction" keeps the bearing stationary on the spindle. The race(s) (which are press fit into the disc) rotate with the disc hub.
The disc has both an inner (large) and outer (small) bearing. Each is made of a bearing + race. The races are pressed into the disc so they spin along with the disc. The bearings ride in the races. When assembled, they form a "sandwich" (bearing - race - disc hub - race - bearing). This is the best pic I could find showing the components (ignore that this is not a VW setup).
Below you can see the bearings on the spindle.
The outer/inner surfaces of the bearings are held in place by compression.
On the inside, the bearing face rests against the flange of the spindle.
On the outside, the nut + washer tighten onto the threads at the end of the spindle and apply pressure to the face of the outer bearing, compressing the "sandwich". The outer nut is tightened down to remove any play but allow free rotation of the disc. This provides the needed friction between the bearings and the surfaces pressed against them. _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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infiniteLoop Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2020 Posts: 265 Location: Empire State
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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Thank you for the in-depth response. I thought they were like motorcycle bearings because of the fact that spindles can go bad. I have one car with a marginal spindle and another with a shot one.
I would think it would be too problematic to rely on that design because if not machined right, the bearings can bind before the inside races made adequate contact. For example, while trying to set preload, if the inner race contacts the spindle first, the preload will be too loose. I'm not seeing a fool proof way that it gets equalized some how. The machining has to be right on. |
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infiniteLoop Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2020 Posts: 265 Location: Empire State
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Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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Okay. I was thinking that the taper of the spindle was for a wedge type of fit but
it's just for weight savings.
I would have thought that at least a slight interference fit would be machined into the race and the spindle. I'm thinking that if the races do not actually fit perfectly with the spindle, when weight is put on the tire, that pressure is made between the top of the race to the spindle and the bottom of the race on the other race. Or basically it is allowed to cock which takes up more distane and hence keeps the race from spinning on the spindle. Regardless I think there has to be some other force involved. That's just my opinion. |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15982 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Disk break kit, new spindles have galling? |
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infiniteLoop wrote: |
I would think it would be too problematic to rely on that design because if not machined right, the bearings can bind before the inside races made adequate contact. |
Looking at the above pic of the spindle...
You can see the larger diameter of the machined spindle shaft pretty much meets the cast iron flange on the spindle backing at 90deg. There is a small lip, but it is very small. Making the radius of this transition very small.
Here is a close up pic of the inner side of the large inner wheel bearing that meets the flange above:
Note that the radius of the bearing ID (just inside the lettering) is a relatively large radius. It represents a slow transition from the bearing ID to the face of the bearing that meets the spindle backing flange face. This means the bearing will never touch that small lip on the spindle. There is an air gap here at the corner. As long as the inner radius of the bearing is a larger radius than the radius of the spindle shaft-to-flange corner... the only place where the bearing contacts the spindle is the OD of the spindle shaft and the face of the flange. Not too difficult to avoid the bearing not bottoming out on the backing flange.
Most automotive front wheel bearings I have worked with have this larger radius on the inside of the bearing where it meets the flange. Not just VW bearings other cars are similar. This larger radius ensures the bearing is supported by the spindle shaft and squarely mates to the flange with interfering with the shaft fit.
Found this cross section pic of a Datsun front spindle. You can see the gap at the corner between the bearing and the spindle.
https://240260280.com/Tech/General/Front%20Axle%20...ng%204.gif _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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