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spatiald Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2015 Posts: 35 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca.
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:07 pm Post subject: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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Hey All,
I just got a new rebuilt gw 2200cc engine installed in my 84 vanagon by my favorite mechanic. The issue is that the temperature gauge is now displaying hot in comparison to where it ran previously. It’s now up very close to the line on the high side. Maybe a quarter to eighth of an inch from the top of gauge.
My mechanic took a temp gun to the block, radiator, etc. and determined that the engine did not seem to be hot anywhere, no dead spots in the cooling system where coolant was not flowing, etc. So everything seems fine and that this is just the new normal for where the temp gauge runs.
I want to know if anyone else has seen or heard of this before? Does this surprise any of you?
My gut is that everything is ok but as you all know a temp gauge on the high side is not something any van owner is used to being ok with. What do you all think? |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17154 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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Idling hot does the radiator fan cycle on and off? What temps is the mechanic reading that causes him to think it’s the new normal. You need to be absolutely sure it’s not running hot. The engine is fitted with for heat fuses under the engine. If the engine overheats and the fuses melt, the warranty is void. _________________ ☮️ |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7472 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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I'm assuming you know the conditions of the GW warranty. If you have any doubt this is something to get conclusive diagnostics on.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Engine failure due to improper installation, overheating, incorrect timing, insufficient oil, contaminated oil, oil additives, outright abuse, etc., will not be honored by warranty. GoWesty strongly recommends replacing your entire cooling system—this engine is not warrantied against damage resulting from overheating. Please read this article for more information.
https://www.gowesty.com/product/made-in-usa/24110/2200cc-engine-
EDIT: what Mark said... _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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spatiald Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2015 Posts: 35 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca.
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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Thanks guys.
Fan has not come on yet at all. I’ve only driven it from the shop to my house. I can ask the mechanic tomorrow what temps he is measuring. I can say that he has installed dozens of GW and other engines in vanagons over 30 years and I’d trust him with my life. He was surprised to see it measuring higher too.
I’ll admit to not overhauling the entire cooling system. I’ve got a solid partial overhaul complete from the years of work. But couldn’t come up with the cash for all of that on top of the engine.
I understand the importance of making sure this is not wrong. Which is why I’m here.
It would be great to hear if anyone else has had this happen and I”m happy to hear your further thoughts Mark and Jim. |
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VicVan Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015 Posts: 1845 Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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Once you have the temperatures, you'll know. I bought a cheap InfraRed gun (around $15).
It's possible that the cluster reads too high. Crazyvwvanman has posted a cool diag to see if the gauge reads properly. _________________ '90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3048 Location: MD
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3582 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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spatiald wrote: |
Thanks guys.
Fan has not come on yet at all. I’ve only driven it from the shop to my house. I can ask the mechanic tomorrow what temps he is measuring. I can say that he has installed dozens of GW and other engines in vanagons over 30 years and I’d trust him with my life. He was surprised to see it measuring higher too.
I’ll admit to not overhauling the entire cooling system. I’ve got a solid partial overhaul complete from the years of work. But couldn’t come up with the cash for all of that on top of the engine.
I understand the importance of making sure this is not wrong. Which is why I’m here.
It would be great to hear if anyone else has had this happen and I”m happy to hear your further thoughts Mark and Jim. |
Here’s hoping you just have an air bubble like our Mod DJkeev had with his Tintop- was running hot until he got it fully bled out after rebuilding the engine. _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6833 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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You could be cheap like me and buy this from Amazon and run the thermocouples down through the rubber plug behind the heater cover that the hot water hose for the heater pass through and tape them to the inlet and outlet hoses to the radiator with "rescue tape".
You can watch as your thermostat opens.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XC6T8PX?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
This has been on my floor since 2018!
All of 33 bucks now..
The 130° is on the radiator near the fan switch and the engine off so temp is rising.
Usually I see 20-30° difference in the inlet and outlet hoses. Sometimes better.
Temp after 2 miles at 45mph right after shutdown.
I think I remember seeing 76° on the return hose in Aug. doing 70mph in the Moab area. _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Last edited by Steve M. on Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17154 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:19 am Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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The radiator fan cycling on and off is a good indicator that the coolant is properly circulating. It’s an easy test that requires no special tools. First step would be to jumper the radiator fan switch and verify fan works.
Idling, When the fan cycles on note the stock temp gauge reading. At idle, the fan must cycle on and off. If the fan doesn’t turn on on low speed, it should eventually turn on high well before any damage occurs. If the fan cycles, this indicates coolant is properly flowing, thermostat is functioning, and radiator is dissipating heat.
If it passes, Then you’d take it out on the road. _________________ ☮️ |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4791 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:10 am Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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Questons:
- did you change the temp gauge sending element? if so, install the old one and see if the gauge is normal.
- did you put in a new thermostat? if so, try installing your old one.
- have you tested the radiator fan yet by jumpering the wires in the plug?
you have a very expensive engine at stake. personally, i consider a $114 radiator (GW price) mandatory for a new engine. they can be clean as a whistle inside, or 1/3 full of sludge that covers up the rad fan sensor so that it never 'sees' the coolant temp. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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AtlasShrugged Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008 Posts: 1605 Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:30 am Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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in 2017 I did a test of various VW temp gauge sender calibrations in my daughter's 1990 VW Cabriolet. The same sender is used in our Vanagons.
Aftermarket senders can give some very wild hot temp readings. The conclusion was use an OEM or the Pelican. Altrom/NAPA was really bad.
See the link:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/vw-audi-technical-f...nders.html _________________ 'Let's Go Brandon' |
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the joker Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006 Posts: 1287
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:49 am Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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new or poorly contacting sensor can be deceiving , also found when my headlights are on my gauge temp reads high |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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chrissev2 Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2012 Posts: 246 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:04 am Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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I had a similar issue with my Vanagon. It turned out to be a cooling fan problem.
The thread where I managed to solve it is here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=680389
The two speed fan set up on the Vanagon has a lot of weak spots. If the fan is not coming on, then you will have overheating issues.
Another problem people often have with the cooling fans is that sludge will build up on the sensor in the radiator, insulating it and preventing it from sensing that the coolant is getting too hot. Sometimes when you replace an engine, you kind of shake up the cooling system, and stuff gets dislodged and moved around. So you might pull your sensor from your rad bottom and see if it is all gummed up.
I would agree with the most recent poster here that an engine that runs hot is not "the new normal", it is an undiagnosed cooling system problem.
So I would not just "forget about it" and run the motor like that. There is no happy ending for a motor that runs hot all the time. That is an engine failure waiting to happen. _________________ 1986 westfalia auto 1.9TD
2023 VW Atlas 3.6 VR6 Highline
2019 Golf Wagon 4 motion
1978 Volkswagen super beetle convertible
1992 Eurovan 2.5 5spd westfalia |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4351 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:34 am Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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Ok, I'll bite: did you by chance keep your 1.9 cooling system setup, or modify it to the 2.1 version? There could be a very simple explanation right in front of you if you have a coolant conversion. I know for sure of one Westy with seem-ably the same temp indication as you are describing. Some folks don't even know that a previous owner had done that, etc. I'd guess at the wrong temp sensor, IF the engine is running below 190F "hot". I've only ever seen temps above 200 when pushing hard in the high desert with a full load (family camping trip). _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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Slimvest Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2014 Posts: 431 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:17 am Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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Quote: |
Questons:
- did you change the temp gauge sending element? if so, install the old one and see if the gauge is normal.
- did you put in a new thermostat? if so, try installing your old one. |
x2
Mine ran "hotter" after these items were changed. _________________ '87 GL w/ Reimo top |
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spatiald Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2015 Posts: 35 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca.
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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Ok - tons of good info. Thanks everyone.
Some good news after doing further research with my mechanic. I put in a new thermostat with the engine. It turns out the old one I had was set to 80 degrees, the stock one gowesty sent is set for 87. So it makes sense that it would be “running hotter”.
We’re now testing resistance on the gauge and comparing to another ‘84 vanagons (different engine) resistance to see if we get a similar reading.
Between the IR gun readings and the knowledge of different thermostats I feel much more comfortable driving it. May even install the gowesty temperature gauge calibration if the temp gauge seems bad.
I’ll report back. Thanks again. |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6833 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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IR Gun readings are usually not accurate. Measure an ice cube and a black pot of boiling water. 🤔 _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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spatiald Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2015 Posts: 35 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca.
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:46 am Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot |
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Ok back with what I think is final info here.
Yes we verified that the cooling fan cycles is cycling on correctly so no issues there.
And also confirmed with the other 84 vanagon that the resistance readings from the gauge are different - leading us to believe the gauge is faulty. With that info and the readings from the IR gun I’m feeling confident enough to use GW fuel gauge calibration kit to make the needle more accurate.
That being said - and fully understanding the importance of accurate cooling - I’m also thinking through the best option for a more direct continuous temp reading. Thanks for all the ideas in this post. Most of those seem relatively easy but I’ll do some more research to determine which is the most accurate.
I’m happy to get more thoughts on this and thanks for all the ideas floated thus far. Samba for the win - again! |
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