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2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question
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EuroMC
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:07 pm    Post subject: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

I am rebuilding a a 2002 Eurovan and want to install a Firestone Air Lift 1000 air lift rear helper spring kit. The air bags are supposed to fit between the coil springs and give up to 1,000 psi to Eurovans for leveling loads while towing.

Here's my dilemma. The existing Euro coil spring does not look at all like the stock Eurovan coil diagrams or the Air Lift installation diagrams. I don't see how I can install the air bags without puncturing the bags. Is the thingy in the center of the coils a broken Bilstein-type spring and can I remove this and then install the air bags?

Looking for advice as to what to do. I can still return the air bag kit but really wanted them to assist for road handling while light towing.


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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

The post in the center of the upper spring perch is the spring retainer and bump stop.

The only pics of Air Lift bags I've seen installed on a VW are for the Vanagon, and they appear to install within the spring sideways: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=161643
If your instructions from Air Lift show a picture that doesn't look like your suspension, then I'd be inclined to assume you received generic instructions that go along with a generic/universal airbag.

FWIW, Air Lift and Firestone are not the same company. The Firestone Ride-Rite airbags have a recess molded into the top for the bump stop/spring retainer post; however, they have an issue with the air-fitting on the bottom getting tweaked and leaking air.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

Yeah, I don't think those are going to work for a Eurovan.

In Europe they call a Eurovan a "T4", and this site has rear air springs for our platform that look completely different:

https://airride.co.uk/air/shop/van-motorhome-picku...sion-rear/

You'll want to look for something like this, or maybe see if they'll ship to you.
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EuroMC
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. Looks like the Air Lift kit is going to be returned.
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Broseph Stalin
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

EuroMC wrote:
Thanks for the replies. Looks like the Air Lift kit is going to be returned.

Saw these https://www.airbagit.com/Air-Suspension-kits-Rear-axle-p/fbx-r-vol-56.htm These look like complete replacement of the rear coils, like those Ocelot linked.

And these https://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=6722 These are Firestone and like other Firestone's I've installed you probably have to cut off some or all of the bumpstops/upper spring seat protrusion. Then you place those pucks in the kit on the top and bottom of each bag to prevent damage to the bag.

Maybe call Firestone and get the height/width of the bags to determine how much you would need to cut off the bumpstops/protrusion. Looks doable pretty easily, and cheap. On install I put wireloom on the airlines to prevent damage. Best of luck.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

Anyone install these air bags and have an account. I have airbags in my truck and love them. Looking to add a set to the camper. I had adjusted the torsion bars so that the van sits level. However when loaded the rear really sags.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

I've had a similar question about how to add more carrying capacity to my 2003 weekender. I pull a teardrop trailer from time to time. When we go for longer trips I can end up loading up quite a bit of stuff and it really compresses the stock springs. The air lift bags looked like a great and simple solution except it looks like they don't really fit. Also, when I was researching this I went to the Vanagon forum and the consensus there was that air lift shocks was the proper solution. But again, fitting them to the Eurovan is a challenge and would probably require providing specs to a distributor and hoping they can match the right shock to our needs. I couldn't find an off the shelf solution with the air shocks.

So, I ended up putting in heavy duty suplex springs from busdepot. I just finished the install and it was a breeze to do. It adds height and my only test so far is to stand on the rear bumper. Definitely stronger than stock.

Here is what I ordered from busdepot: https://www.busdepot.com/j12985

By the way, I removed my cavevan spacers since these springs raise the rear plenty. I have a few upcoming trips and I'll add a photo fully loaded so you can see.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

bigfoot_ev wrote:
I've had a similar question about how to add more carrying capacity to my 2003 weekender. I pull a teardrop trailer from time to time. When we go for longer trips I can end up loading up quite a bit of stuff and it really compresses the stock springs. The air lift bags looked like a great and simple solution except it looks like they don't really fit. Also, when I was researching this I went to the Vanagon forum and the consensus there was that air lift shocks was the proper solution. But again, fitting them to the Eurovan is a challenge and would probably require providing specs to a distributor and hoping they can match the right shock to our needs. I couldn't find an off the shelf solution with the air shocks.

So, I ended up putting in heavy duty suplex springs from busdepot. I just finished the install and it was a breeze to do. It adds height and my only test so far is to stand on the rear bumper. Definitely stronger than stock.

Here is what I ordered from busdepot: https://www.busdepot.com/j12985

By the way, I removed my cavevan spacers since these springs raise the rear plenty. I have a few upcoming trips and I'll add a photo fully loaded so you can see.


Looks like those springs are working for you.

I like airbags due to the variable spring rate. Right now our van is sitting level. But fully loaded I am guessing that I am putting 1200+lbs in there, with most of the weight in the back. I do not think that I want to drive around with the springs set to carry that load when empty.

Last summer I hauled a few yards or gravel in my truck. The gravel yard is close by so I made a few trips. I inflated my tires and airbag to the max. at the house and drove empty to the yard. Felt like I was riding a "hardtail" with stone tires. Loaded up however it was a pretty cush ride.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

MrPulldown wrote:

Looks like those springs are working for you.


I'm not sure they are yet. I really liked the ride with the OEM springs when the van was unloaded. I only need the extra support when loaded up. You have made me rethink this. I'll keep my OEM springs and spacers. I have some trips coming up this summer with a fully loaded van. The suplex springs are supposed to be progressive but I've only put about 50 mi unloaded so we shall see

What brand air bag did you go with? Any installation issues?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

bigfoot_ev wrote:
MrPulldown wrote:

Looks like those springs are working for you.


I'm not sure they are yet. I really liked the ride with the OEM springs when the van was unloaded. I only need the extra support when loaded up. You have made me rethink this. I'll keep my OEM springs and spacers. I have some trips coming up this summer with a fully loaded van. The suplex springs are supposed to be progressive but I've only put about 50 mi unloaded so we shall see

What brand air bag did you go with? Any installation issues?


I have not bought airbags for the van. Just trying to learn.

For my truck I have firestones. I have beat on them pretty hard for 10+ years and they have held up great. My heaviest load was 3000lbs of gravel with the bags at 100psi.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

ordered some bags today.
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Endopotential
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

Wish I had found this thread earlier this summer when I was work on my '02 Weekender. The PO had put them in but the bags were leaking.

After much trial and error, I found out that:
- Airlift and Amazon just use generic pictures, so don't trust what you see
-the 60821 that's supposed to be compatible (original picture above) is way too tall
- I had to order the 60789 to get it to fit. And yes, to keep the inflation nipple from getting crushed by the bump stops, you have to route the bag/nipple horizontally.

[Any chance we can modify the thread title to "LIFT" not "LIT" so that others can find this topic?]
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

Endopotential wrote:
Wish I had found this thread earlier this summer when I was work on my '02 Weekender. The PO had put them in but the bags were leaking.

After much trial and error, I found out that:
- Airlift and Amazon just use generic pictures, so don't trust what you see
-the 60821 that's supposed to be compatible (original picture above) is way too tall
- I had to order the 60789 to get it to fit. And yes, to keep the inflation nipple from getting crushed by the bump stops, you have to route the bag/nipple horizontally.

[Any chance we can modify the thread title to "LIFT" not "LIT" so that others can find this topic?]


Where did you install your air fill valve? I got my airbags yesterday. Boy are they tiny and cute. Looking at the first picture in the thread, it is about half the size. Which makes sense when compared to the size of the coil spring.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

Got my airbags installed. Why didn't I do this sooner. So easy, half hour per side. Bag goes in sideways. No cutting of the stock bump stops. I mounted my driver side valve to the grey water dump. By mount, I mean zip tied. Passenger side I routed back and to the hitch. THe hardest part was mounting the exhaust heat shield. THe kit comes with an exhaust clamp and a couple of hose clamps, all of which are useless. I mounted only 1 of the heat shields, and had to supply my own clamps as the ones provided are too big. There is no possibility of rotating the exhaust for more clearance, as that is what the replacement exhaust clamp is for and unused. The kit fits many different vehicles, and assume I just have extra parts. This is what the kit looks like.
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"While I was in there" I replaced the rear shocks as you need to remove the shocks anyways to allow the spring to drop out. THe stock shocks were still in very good condition. Gas charge still intact and very good resistnace both in compression and rebound, no flat spots, made by Saches. Wonder how they compared to when they where new, but all indications show the current ones are in good working order. Anyone want these? 95K.The new Meyle HD shocks are not gas charged and have a noticeable more resistance.



Pumped up the new bags to 20 psi (5-35 max). The ride is incredible. Body roll is greatly reduced and I have not even installed the new front shocks.

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Endopotential
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

Nice going!

I can't say I've noticed any difference with mine pumped up or not, but then I only have a lightly loaded Weekender. Maybe if I ever tow anything.

FYI for future reference - no need to take off the springs, at least on my setup. With the rear end jacked up, the rear arms drop enough to open up the spring coils. The bags are small enough that you can just squeeze them through the coils directly.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

Endopotential wrote:
Nice going!

I can't say I've noticed any difference with mine pumped up or not, but then I only have a lightly loaded Weekender. Maybe if I ever tow anything.

FYI for future reference - no need to take off the springs, at least on my setup. With the rear end jacked up, the rear arms drop enough to open up the spring coils. The bags are small enough that you can just squeeze them through the coils directly.


I did not need to remove the rear springs to get the airbags in. I just lowered the rear suspension link. With the shocks removed you can get another inch or 2 of drop.

Where did you installed your air valves?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

Not quite sure what you mean by air valves? Both my bags inflate at the same time; I can't choose left vs right.

The whole thing was done by some previous owner - I just replaced the leaking bags. The air compressor is mounted under the car behind passenger rear wheel; air tank is hidden in the interior behind access panel rear side. The control switch and pressure regulator is up front at bottom of dash.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

Endopotential wrote:
Not quite sure what you mean by air valves? Both my bags inflate at the same time; I can't choose left vs right.

The whole thing was done by some previous owner - I just replaced the leaking bags. The air compressor is mounted under the car behind passenger rear wheel; air tank is hidden in the interior behind access panel rear side. The control switch and pressure regulator is up front at bottom of dash.


On board AIR. FANCY!! The standard installation is a brass Shrader valve. You can see it in my previously linked picture. When I installed airbags on my truck I mounted them on the bumper through the 2 lower unused license plate mounting holes. Can't do that on the EV. Not sure I want to route them inside the cab either.

I like running the 2 bags independent of each other for a couple of reasons. You get to help level the 2 side of the van. Most EVC are left leaning due to all the camper equipment on one side. I have already installed a small lift spacer on that side but it still has a very slight left lean. When the 2 bags are linked you have a weird variable spring rate. When taking a corner for example the van leans to the outside. One bag is compressed and the other is not. Air will transfer from the compressed bag to the non. This make freeway on-ramp sweepers particularly interesting as you lose spring force through the curve. Almost rolled my truck offroad once when I had them linked as I dropped off a ledge and I lost my spring force.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

Question? Can I use air powered shocks to make the load heavier like on my Bay? It had air shocks that were adjustable by adding more air. To a central valve which controlled the load capacity. Is this doable in a Eurovan?? Thx Bill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: 2002 Eurovan Air Lit Question Reply with quote

volkybus wrote:
Question? Can I use air powered shocks to make the load heavier like on my Bay? It had air shocks that were adjustable by adding more air. To a central valve which controlled the load capacity. Is this doable in a Eurovan?? Thx Bill


Yes and no. Yes you can (but maybe shouldn't), No cause they do not make an air shock for the rear of the euro van.

In general you should not use the shock mounts to take a vehicles load. Springs take the load, shocks slow down the oscillation of the suspension. THe shock mounts are not designed to take that kind of load. That said, I have seen people use air shocks successfully (to increase the load capacity by a small amount) and not rip off the small shock mount post.

THe air lift bags do help, but I am finding out that they are pretty small, and the 1000lb increase in capacity is questionable. Though the air bag might help with the load you get minimal leveling ability.

Is does look like one might be able to find a complete air spring to swap out the coil spring that could really increase load capacity. The air spring pictured below is for a Rialta which has a completely different rear suspension set up than the EV, but gives you an idea of what is possible.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here is a picture of an air spring in place of a coil.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The bay window VW bus, has a different rear shock set up than the EVs.
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