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Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ?
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Bug53
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:56 pm    Post subject: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

How do I set up a 1600 DP with an aftermarket intake manifold w/heat risers, 205 Distributor with vacuum and mechanical advance., extractor exhaust, and 34PICT3 carb. No vacuum retard.

I went up one size with the main jet, re-built the carb with new acc.pump, etc.

Do I set the timing with the vacuum line disconnected or connected for a total of 30-32 degrees.
I have a vacuum port on the side near the idle screws and another on the base on the right rear side.


Last edited by Bug53 on Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tasb
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 025 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

What's an "025" distributor?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 025 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

tasb wrote:
What's an "025" distributor?

The Mexican 205 built by VWNOS with a single vac. advance unit.


Last edited by Bug53 on Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bug53
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 025 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

tasb wrote:
What's an "025" distributor?

Sorry. "205"
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tasb
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

Just so's you are aware, ALL 98 VW distributor versions used just in the USA from 1955 until 1985 are "205's". 205 = distributor in VW' ese. You need to be more specific.,
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

113 905 205AL SVDA
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

Bug53 wrote:
113 905 205AL SVDA
I would of recommended a 043-905-205 also know as a 0231 170 034 aka 034 aka SVDA.

The 205AL was used only on non-USA sold models.

205AL specs
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 8-12deg Adv; Centrifugal: 13-16deg @ 2200rpm, 25-28deg @ 3900rpm

034 specs
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 8-12deg Adv; Centrifugal: 7-12deg @ 1600rpm, 20-25deg @ 3800rpm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

He's not looking for another distributor. He wants to know how to correctly set up the one he's got. The 113 AL is a good distributor not sent to the states during it's production. With the hose connected to the left side of the carburetor verify with a timing light that you are not getting more than 32 degrees of advance.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

tasb wrote:
With the hose connected to the left side of the carburetor verify with a timing light that you are not getting more than 32 degrees of advance.

That will give 32 - 28 = 4* at idle.

A 034 will give you 32 - 25 = 7* which is the factory spec.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

If I set it up to 32 degrees btdc at full advance (hose connected) it drops back to around 7 or 8 btdc at a idle of around 900-1000. Working with a fuel pump issue so I will get the idle down in the end.
If I pull the hose off at idle it's game over and it dies quick.
It is SVDA.

And no. I am not buying another distributor. VWNOS just sold me this one
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

Bug53 wrote:
If I pull the hose off at idle it's game over and it dies quick.
It is SVDA.

You need to do it with the hose off and the nipple on the carb plugged... otherwise you have a vacuum leak at the carb.

The original 34PICT-3 carb has a modification number stamped on the base flange. They were all slightly different which is why there were a number of different engines and distributors matched to it. The 205AL was never sold on a engine int he USA. It was used on 1300 and 1600 engines. It was matched to the 30PICT-3 and 34PICT-3. But the flange number needs to match.

I bet it doesn't match the carb you have.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


These are pics of my current 34PICT3 Carb.

Bill Fowler asked the same questions but the back and forth e-mails with him could not develop any continuity at all and he had personal stuff going on so based on what we had talked about in all the confusion I gave the order to VWNOS.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:26 am    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

You have a 34PICT-3 VW427, the original matching distributor is a 043 905 205 which is 0231 170 034 aka 034 aka SVDA.

And the curve is NOT the same. Bosch never made the same part with 2 different part numbers.

Can you make it work... sure. you can also make a Chinese 009 work.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

Above, true but could be confusing. Starting in1965 all aluminum bodied distributors installed on VW engines had two part numbers, one is Bosch the other VW.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

The 043 905 205 and 113 905 205 AL are identical as per VW.




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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

Bug53 wrote:
If I set it up to 32 degrees btdc at full advance (hose connected) it drops back to around 7 or 8 btdc at a idle of around 900-1000.

Total advance ignition timing is meant to make sure mechanical advance does not take you beyond the safe limit of 28-32BTDC. With vacuum advance still connected and adding to the ignition timing, based on your description above, you are not properly setting the timing.

With the vacuum advance hose disconnected and plugged set your max timing to 28BTDC. Rev the engine until the ignition timing stops increasing. This could be anywhere between 2500-3800rpm. Make sure the distributor mechanical advance has stopped advancing before you set the timing to 28BTDC. Let the rpms drop back to idle (800-1000rpm). At this low rpm the mechanical advance is not adding to the ignition timing. What is the idle timing? This idle timing represents 28BTDC at max mechanical advance. The difference between 28BTDC and this idle timing is the amount of mechanical advance your distributor is adding. Based on the above spec, this should be 25-28deg. That suggests that your idle timing should be between TDC and 3BTDC.


Bug53 wrote:
If I pull the hose off at idle it's game over and it dies quick.
It is SVDA.

Disconnecting the vacuum advance hose on the left side of the carb should not create a significant vacuum leak at warmed up idle when the throttle plate is fully closed. This left side vacuum port on the 34Pict carb is connected to ported vacuum. Ported vacuum is located just above the closed throttle plate and should not be exposed to intake vacuum when the throttle plate is adjusted correctly.
Did you loosen the screw at the end of the throttle arm until it is not touching the lowest level of the fast idle cam when closed, then tighten in 1/4 turn past just touching. This sets the throttle plate fully closed but not touching the inner wall of the throat. At this setting, the ported vacuum port should have zero vacuum at warm idle.
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Bug53
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

When I wrote the post about setting it at 32 max with hose connected and it settling back to 7 or 8 bedchamber it was before I realized my idle was set with the throttle plate open.
Once I got it closed and set it right the timing was more like 8-10 ATDC when it settled back.

Now I set it at 0 tdc and my max is around 38 with hose connected.
With the idle set with throttle plate closed removing the hose does nothing as it should..
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

Bug53 wrote:
When I wrote the post about setting it at 32 max with hose connected and it settling back to 7 or 8 bedchamber it was before I realized my idle was set with the throttle plate open.
<...>
Now I set it at 0 tdc and my max is around 38 with hose connected.

You don't seem to be getting the point... when setting the ignition timing for max total advance (revving the engine to a high rpm where the mechanical advance reaches max), this is done w/ the vacuum hose disconnected to restrict the advance systems to just initial + mechanical. Vacuum advance should be disabled.
32BTDC or 38BTDC with vacuum hose connected is a meaningless measure because vacuum advance varies based on load and not rpm. You cannot confirm how much of this 32BTDC or 38BTDC is from a load variable vacuum advance or how much was from rpm-based mechanical advance. There is no specification for how much vacuum advance is added based on engine rpms.

One question you have not yet answered... where does your mechanical advance max out? This is measured with the vacuum hose DISCONNECTED and represents the total rpm-based ignition advance produced by your distributor. This should not exceed 32BTDC at any rpm. Note that from the spec posted by Glenn above your 205AL distributor may not max out mechanical advance until you reach 3900rpm! You may need to rev the engine really high to reach max mechanical advance.
None of your previous posts confirm this timing because you continuously post timing values with the vacuum advance hose still connected. This skews the reading.

Either set the ignition timing based on the model# of the distributor, or adjust it based on max rpm-based ignition timing (initial + mechanical) to make sure it is not over advancing at high rpms.


Bug53 wrote:
With the idle set with throttle plate closed removing the hose does nothing as it should..

This is fine and the previous issue reflects a carb adjustment issue and not a distributor/timing issue. The carb was adjusted incorrectly and was generating vacuum on the vacuum advance port at idle when it should not have been.
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

Installed Pertronix SVDA and troubles are over regarding timing.
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2021 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Tuning 1600 DP / 34PICT3 / 205 Distributor - How ? Reply with quote

Bug53 wrote:
Installed Pertronix SVDA and troubles are over regarding timing.


You replaced a Bosch distributor you bought from VWNOS w/a Pertronix svda?
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