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Another Alternator Mounting Bolt Failure Victim
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Dtfox
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:25 pm    Post subject: Another Alternator Mounting Bolt Failure Victim Reply with quote

Howdy folks, first timer here. Been lurking on the forum since I took the plunge and bought a Westfalia last year.

I had a GoWesty alt reinforcement bracket bust on me (powder coated steel version from the power steering mount) and soon after discovered that the OEM alt bracket was loosely held in place by a single 7/16th-20 bolt.
The second bolt of the same size is broken 9/16ths of an inch into the block.

My question is whether or not you would bother with removing the broken bolt or just re-thread the hole to the end of the broken bolt and install a shorter one? Would 9/16th of thread be enough to hold the alt bracket in place?

I've ordered and plan on installing the GoWesty "Monster" support bracket kit that installs on the coolant elbow as well as the power steering mount.
https://www.gowesty.com/product/-/24532/alternator-bracket-supprt-bundle-2100cc-?v=

Here's some pics:

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Thanks for any input! Anxious
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Another Alternator Mounting Bolt Failure Victim Reply with quote

That's a tricky spot.
Drill too deep and you're screwed!

I would remove the broken bolt to get more bite.

Who rebuilt the engine?
I see a wax melt tab.

Dave
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Dtfox
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Another Alternator Mounting Bolt Failure Victim Reply with quote

Good eye!

P.O. said it was rebuilt by Walter at United Auto Center in North Hollywood, October of 18'.

The engine rebuild was the major selling point for me. Little did I know everything else was going to go wrong just weeks after I bought it!
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Last edited by Dtfox on Thu May 27, 2021 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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4Gears4Tires
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Another Alternator Mounting Bolt Failure Victim Reply with quote

Is it deep enough to get 4-6 threads in? If so, I wouldn't bother drilling since you are getting the expanded bracket to spread the load.

As someone who just installed the full GW alt bracket, let me tell you about their directions. For the coolant pipe the directions are "remove the bolts and hold a finger to the coolant pipe so coolant doesn't spill everywhere, teehee." I jammed that pipe against the block with a wrench, it still leaked everywhere. I used a lift to bring the van up and down which made it a lot easier. I can't imagine trying to install this bracket on jack stands on my back with coolant just pouring onto my face. And how are you supposed to get anything else done with a finger on the coolant pipe? Ridiculous. I'm not knocking the product though, it definitely looks like quite the improvement over stock.

The top coolant pipe bolt is best accessed through the license plate hatch with extensions and a wobble. The bottom bolt is accessed with a wrench from underneath.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Another Alternator Mounting Bolt Failure Victim Reply with quote

it's a drill too deep and you get into the water jacket, but that's not the end of the world for the block. you would just have to set the bolt/stud with a thread sealer. I use a blue bloc from the big box store that is rated for steam fittings..

happened to us once on Dad's engine. hope you don't have to go there but it's not the end of the world just better if you are prepared 'mentally' for it.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Another Alternator Mounting Bolt Failure Victim Reply with quote

4Gears4Tires wrote:
Is it deep enough to get 4-6 threads in? If so, I wouldn't bother drilling since you are getting the expanded bracket to spread the load.


I can definitely get 4-6 threads in there. If I get another answer like that I'll go this route for sure. That's initially what I thought as well due to the extra support.
If it starts to loosen again down the line I'll drill out the 3/8ths of broken bolt to get the full 15/16th of depth for piece of mind.

Thanks for the tip for installing the full GW alt brackets too. Those doggone GW videos make everything look easy! Brick wall

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it's a drill too deep and you get into the water jacket, but that's not the end of the world for the block. you would just have to set the bolt/stud with a thread sealer. I use a blue bloc from the big box store that is rated for steam fittings..


This is why I love this forum!
Thanks for demystifying the inevitable "what if!"

If anyone out there wants a math problem: how many threads can I get in 9/16th of depth with a 20 tpi bolt??
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Another Alternator Mounting Bolt Failure Victim Reply with quote

https://www.pirate4x4.com/threads/chart-for-how-many-threads-you-need-for-full-strength.425583/

If it's a 7/16th bolt and you have 9/16ths depth, you should be ok. Not perfect, but ok. Are you sure they are SAE bolts? I thought the only SAE bolts on a van were the seatbelt bolts.

9/16" = 0.562". 20*0.56 = 11.2.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Another Alternator Mounting Bolt Failure Victim Reply with quote

I had the same thing happen to me a couple of years ago and was able to get the broken stud out with a LH drill bit. If you have the time, and patience, you should be able to extract it.

But, as several folks have said, you are likely to be OK with the 7/16 " of thread you have and the combo of the GW brackets.

Here's the thread from my scenario:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Good Luck !
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Another Alternator Mounting Bolt Failure Victim Reply with quote

4Gears4Tires wrote:

If it's a 7/16th bolt and you have 9/16ths depth, you should be ok. Not perfect, but ok. Are you sure they are SAE bolts? I thought the only SAE bolts on a van were the seatbelt bolts.


Thanks for the link and your input!
I brought the bolt in to buy replacements, checked it in a bolt, nut, and thread gauge and 7/16th-20 is what I came up with after trying to force it in all the metric options. d'oh!

My guess is whoever replaced the original 8mm 1.25 studs might have only had SAE equipment and hardware to work with. Blasphemy though if you ask me!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Another Alternator Mounting Bolt Failure Victim Reply with quote

goubeaux wrote:
I had the same thing happen to me a couple of years ago and was able to get the broken stud out with a LH drill bit. If you have the time, and patience, you should be able to extract it.

But, as several folks have said, you are likely to be OK with the 7/16 " of thread you have and the combo of the GW brackets.

Here's the thread from my scenario:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Good Luck !


Thanks for your input!
I bookmarked your thread before posting and I'm grateful for the discovery of the poor man's QuickCenter trick! Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: Another Alternator Mounting Bolt Failure Victim Reply with quote

I would certainly be wanting to get that broken bolt out of there. You need some kind of guide so you can center punch it dead on and then drill it through with a smallish pilot bit. I would then spray a quality penetrant through the hole and let it sit for a day or so. I would then increase hole size with a left hand bit in hopes that it would screw out. If that fails and I had to move on to the easy-out faze I would be tempted to use a propane torch to heat the block in that area. This should loosen the fit a bit and break up any high strength loctite that might be on the threads.

If you drill into the water jacket it is not big deal, the outer exhaust manifold bolt holes on my Dodge are that way and a bit of silicone sealant on the threads lasts for a decade plus.

If you have (or can get) a power steering pump mount for your engine this small extra link to the alternator pivot bolt will take most of the load off the stock bracket. I use it in conjunction with the GoWesty bracket. Note you can also see where I added weld to the stock alternator bracket, every little bit helps to improve the poorly engineered original setup.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Another Alternator Mounting Bolt Failure Victim Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:

If you have (or can get) a power steering pump mount for your engine this small extra link to the alternator pivot bolt will take most of the load off the stock bracket.


i really like that tie strap and will add one. also working on a spring tension idler on the top Alt belt run to stop the harmonic vibration you can see at certain RPMs, which i believe is what is taking out all these mounts, OEM or GW.
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