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smeeegheeead Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2021 Posts: 48 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
i saw that.
i'm going to call NAPA and see what they can do for me. i have a new set in there now, but i don't have high hopes |
I've just been waiting, for my current van project, for T3 to hopefully get some back in and order them with the suspension bushing stuff I need at the same time. May be wishful thinking. If you cant get em you cant get em. |
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wcdennis Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2004 Posts: 955 Location: Winston-Salem NC
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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I did a total front end rebuild less than 5 years ago and (like everyone else) I'm finding many of the rubber parts already failing. The worst is the boot on the Febi upper ball joints. they look like this:
No doubt the boots gave up long before I noticed, but the mechanical joints are still solid. So, being the type that hates to throw away something that is still good, I measured the two diameters (20.3mm and 37.6mm) and started looking for a replacement boot. The closest thing I could find are these universal seals for a tie rod end. https://www.suspension.com/superpro/spf0333k.
When they showed up, I was a bit discouraged. They are very thick and not too flexible. Also, there was no ridge inside the large opening to fit the groove on the ball joint body. With some effort, they will fit very snugly on the joint. To get the smaller opening over the seat on the post, I used a piece of 3/4 PVC pipe and some muscle.
At this point it looked like a very clean fit, but when I worked the joint, the boot would pop-off. I tried a wire retainer, but it wanted to slip down off the seal. So my solution, that seems to be working, is a zip-tie pulled snug with pliers.
I'm not claiming victory. Some hard driving will tell if the boot stays in place. I do have every confidence that they won't split like the OG ones. If the nylon zip-tie gives up, I realize they make them in stainless steel. |
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wcdennis Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2004 Posts: 955 Location: Winston-Salem NC
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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in the "why didn't I think of that sooner" category, a narrow worm drive clamp makes this replacement boot bomb-proof. If dirt from a broken boot is the main failure mode of these joints, then this one should last a long time.
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Kdj Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2017 Posts: 142 Location: Naptown
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Any other leads on lemforder lower ball joints? |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6833 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Just a heads up that this store I referenced earlier is not shipping out the MOOG Ball Joint they are showing in their ad. It's another aftermarket ball joint you receive.
As soon as they arrived I shipped them back before leaving the UPS Store.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ball-Joint-Front-Lower-fo...06f6440a2d _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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dgbeatty Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2006 Posts: 702 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Both Shockwarehouse.com and Summitracing.com show the Moogs in stock..
https://tinyurl.com/yj8msnnh
Both with shipping included, there is no FREE _________________ Schau in das Buch |
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Wellington Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004 Posts: 1890 Location: Montreal
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:06 am Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Unless you find old stock MOOG, you will be buying garbage.
Today's MOOG lower ball joints are the same crap as the others.
Lemforder is the only quality choice today. |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5391 Location: PNW
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Wellington wrote: |
Unless you find old stock MOOG, you will be buying garbage.
Today's MOOG lower ball joints are the same crap as the others.
Lemforder is the only quality choice today. |
This is 100% true. I even cut one of the "new" Moog LBJs apart to see how it's constructed and it's total junk. And to make things worse, Lemforders are near impossible to find these days. Word has it that Lemforder may be dropping the LBJs altogether.
As a result of all of this, T3 Technique has taken on the HUGE (and expensive) challenge of having bespoke upper and lower ball joints made. The sample/prototypes of the new UBJs are excellent and are headed to production as we speak. The new lower ball joints needed a little refinement to get them up to my standards, but I think we are really close to pulling the trigger on those too. It will be a few months before we see tangible stock, but they are coming. Once I have some stock, I'd be happy to cut a sample apart to show you all the differences.
And, as some of you may have already read about, there will be a new tall version of the UBJs to help correct the geometry of a lifted van and help proved more UCA to spring clearance. In my lifted 2wd, these tall ball joints absolutely transformed the drivability, ride quality, stability, etc. It's like a completely different van. Below is a photo to show the difference between a stock length UBJ and the tall UBJ.
_________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Mac_Daddy_Westy Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2011 Posts: 154 Location: San Antonio, Tx
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Chris,
Amazing engineering and a game changer as well. I'll be your 1st batch of customers for the LBJ and UBJ, planning on lifting my 2WD auto trans Westy.
Question: as you mentioned UBJ for lifted vans, what is the "minimum" lift that would benefit from your extended UBJ?
if one is to just do a 1.5" lift, will there be a significant benefit in performance of the extended UBJ?
andre _________________ '87 Westy with 2.5 Subi (auto trans) |
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Wellington Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004 Posts: 1890 Location: Montreal
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Christopher, I can't image undertaking such a project. Amazing.
When I saw lower Lemforders getting scarce, I purchased 4 for the future, they are sitting on the shelf. My daughter is convinced she wants my Westfalia, and I want to be sure she will be able to keep it for many years. |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6833 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Good on You Christopher! _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3048 Location: MD
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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That is awesome! Since Syncros are lifted over the 2wd (but they have different arms) would you recommend the tall versions even on stock Syncros? _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6833 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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I can see the new window sticker now...T3's got BALLS _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5391 Location: PNW
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Boxer Rebellion wrote: |
Chris,
Amazing engineering and a game changer as well. I'll be your 1st batch of customers for the LBJ and UBJ, planning on lifting my 2WD auto trans Westy.
Question: as you mentioned UBJ for lifted vans, what is the "minimum" lift that would benefit from your extended UBJ?
if one is to just do a 1.5" lift, will there be a significant benefit in performance of the extended UBJ?
andre |
I should have been a little more clear in my wording when I said the UBJs were going into production. What I should have said is that the order is placed in the queue for production. It will be late July to late August before the new joints arrive.
As of today, I'm going to say that any 2wd van that is lifted in the front to a height of 18" or above (center of hub to fender lip) will greatly benefit from the tall UBJs. In other words, it's the actual ride height that determines the need for the tall UBJs, not the amount of lift. The reason for this is because you could start out with van that has a 16" ride height, lift it 1.5", and end up with a 17.5" ride height.
I have not had the opportunity to test the tall UBJs with anything less than an18" ride height. The way the tall UBJs affect the geometry may cause camber alignment issues with vans that have ride heights lower than 18". I'm not 100% sure on that though. I'll have to test it when I get a chance. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5391 Location: PNW
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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4Gears4Tires wrote: |
That is awesome! Since Syncros are lifted over the 2wd (but they have different arms) would you recommend the tall versions even on stock Syncros? |
While the suspension design/geometry of the Syncro is very different compared to a 2wd, yes, the Syncro will definitely benefit from having the tall UBJs in place. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5391 Location: PNW
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Steve M. wrote: |
I can see the new window sticker now...T3's got BALLS |
Ha! Well, I suppose that's better than a "T3's got joints". I'm afraid I would attract the wrong type of customer and they would be disappointed to find out I don't have the kind of joints they are looking for. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Kdj Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2017 Posts: 142 Location: Naptown
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Just had a bait and switch lemforder order show up from eEuroparts. They are headed back to where they came!
Let us know when your taking orders Chris. |
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whafalia Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2009 Posts: 685 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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You had me at bespoke _________________ 84 westie 2.2 w/ digijet, AT |
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Jake de Villiers Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 5911 Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6360 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:22 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Christopher Schimke wrote: |
Wellington wrote: |
Unless you find old stock MOOG, you will be buying garbage.
Today's MOOG lower ball joints are the same crap as the others.
Lemforder is the only quality choice today. |
This is 100% true. I even cut one of the "new" Moog LBJs apart to see how it's constructed and it's total junk. And to make things worse, Lemforders are near impossible to find these days. Word has it that Lemforder may be dropping the LBJs altogether.
As a result of all of this, T3 Technique has taken on the HUGE (and expensive) challenge of having bespoke upper and lower ball joints made. The sample/prototypes of the new UBJs are excellent and are headed to production as we speak. The new lower ball joints needed a little refinement to get them up to my standards, but I think we are really close to pulling the trigger on those too. It will be a few months before we see tangible stock, but they are coming. Once I have some stock, I'd be happy to cut a sample apart to show you all the differences.
And, as some of you may have already read about, there will be a new tall version of the UBJs to help correct the geometry of a lifted van and help proved more UCA to spring clearance. In my lifted 2wd, these tall ball joints absolutely transformed the drivability, ride quality, stability, etc. It's like a completely different van. Below is a photo to show the difference between a stock length UBJ and the tall UBJ.
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Damn Chris!
This is rad! _________________ Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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