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AJPinVT Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2016 Posts: 13 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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I just switched from USAA to Grundy for my '77 Campmoblie after a pretty extensive restoration. I was shelling out about $350/yr for full coverage through USAA for book value of around $6500. With Grundy I've coverage for agreed value of $30,000 for $205/yr. Like Skills said, no mileage or use restrictions, just can't be a daily driver (must have a different registered vehicle for each driver in house), and must be kept in garage (had to include photo of bus in garage). |
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VWSunny72 Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2014 Posts: 163 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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Check out this recent thread on insurance:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673554&highlight=
FWIW, I recently got a "stated value" quote from Safeco that allowed me to use Sunny as a daily driver for an annual cost of ~$1,000. I am currently using state farm and they swear that while my value is only listed at $3500 (vs my stated value of ~$20k), they will pay the full amount if an accident occurs and i show them current values via completed eBay sales. They don't do stated value policies for cars newer than 1970 (no idea why). Anyway, I am skeptical that it won't be a fight if/when that happens, so will eventually switch to Safeco. Thanks for reminding me. _________________ ------------------------
I am owned by a 1972 Westy named Sunny. She has a 1979 2.0L engine w/ dual Weber IDF 40s. |
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SamboSamba22 Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015 Posts: 2772 Location: Benton, Arkansas
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Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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There really is a lack of companies that are willing to meet this needed criteria. I have insurance through USAA, whereas their collectors insurance is branched through American Collectors insurance.
Agreed upon value of $22k, annual cost of $300. Mileage restrictions of 5k miles, to shows, nice days, leisure cruises, and as stated NO CAMPING.
Who here on the Sambo works in the insurance world to fill this void?!?
FWIW, prior to switching to collectors insurance, the appraised value of my bus with monthly payments for liability at $33 stated the bus was worth 1100... _________________ The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL]
Last edited by SamboSamba22 on Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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VWSunny72 wrote: |
Check out this recent thread on insurance:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673554&highlight=
FWIW, I recently got a "stated value" quote from Safeco that allowed me to use Sunny as a daily driver for an annual cost of ~$1,000. I am currently using state farm and they swear that while my value is only listed at $3500 (vs my stated value of ~$20k), they will pay the full amount if an accident occurs and i show them current values via completed eBay sales. They don't do stated value policies for cars newer than 1970 (no idea why). Anyway, I am skeptical that it won't be a fight if/when that happens, so will eventually switch to Safeco. Thanks for reminding me. |
be careful with a stated value policy....you'll lose your ass in the event of a loss. agreed value is where it's at. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:54 am Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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I had a good conversation with Steve Kent this morning. From what he said it sounds like I'll call American Collectors via USAA. That's what he uses. I do have a garage so they can Zillow me all day long if they want to. After the call I'll come back with results. Thanks everyone for your input. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:50 am Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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aeromech wrote: |
I had a good conversation with Steve Kent this morning. From what he said it sounds like I'll call American Collectors via USAA. That's what he uses. I do have a garage so they can Zillow me all day long if they want to. After the call I'll come back with results. Thanks everyone for your input. |
as of 2021 USAA and American Collectors will no longer insure for daily use or camping. American Collectors won't period. American Bankers Insurance who was the underwriter referred me to a subsidiary of GEICO who does collector cars on the older type policy. Premium is double ($650 a year now). _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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This is news to me _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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aeromech wrote: |
This is news to me |
Getting a burger or a drive to the beach to look out over the sunset is a pleasure use which is covered. I had a long talk with the USAA American Collector's policy people yesterday, and then talked with American Collectors after I saw all the policy changes in my new renewal next month. They have changed their underwriter on policies so renewals have substantially different limits and conditions than the older policies that were underwritten by American Bankers. I then called American Bankers in FL, and they referred me to a phone number, Assurant DST Auto Insurance that handles portfolio policies for GEICO. I also tried talking with several other well known collector companies that offer agreed/guaranteed value policies, but none of the others will allow camping in any form. There are even companies that specialize in Westphalia campers but they exclude camping. Dumb. The problem seems to be that while you and I may be careful camping, others may not, and they may park by the trail head to come back and find their bus stripped or gone. If the companies insure one bus for camping then they have to insure all. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6982 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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I don’t understand the issue people are having with insurance. Is it because many are calling companies that specialize in classic cars or is it a state issue?
When I was with State Farm, I was able to get an agreed value with regular full coverage with no limitations. I have since switch all my cars and my house to Liberty Mutual and I was able to get all the same policy’s I had with State Farm, even got a higher agreed value. All it took was a bunch of pics and a few classified ads of the same year and model bus. All three of my cars have the same coverage, full comp and collision with $250 deductible and $0 glass deductible with a $30k agreed value on my bus. ~$2400 a year for all 3 policy's. $65/month for each vehicle seems like a small price to pay to me. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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One of my customers who has a beautiful 1974 bus came back to the dirt lot to find a flat bed tow truck about 2 minutes away from taking her bus.
Her bus was featured in the San Diego Automotive Museum in Balboa Park for about 6 months last year.
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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richparker wrote: |
I don’t understand the issue people are having with insurance. Is it because many are calling companies that specialize in classic cars or is it a state issue?
When I was with State Farm, I was able to get an agreed value with regular full coverage with no limitations. I have since switch all my cars and my house to Liberty Mutual and I was able to get all the same policy’s I had with State Farm, even got a higher agreed value. All it took was a bunch of pics and a few classified ads of the same year and model bus. All three of my cars have the same coverage, full comp and collision with $250 deductible and $0 glass deductible with a $30k agreed value on my bus. ~$2400 a year for all 3 policy's. $65/month for each vehicle seems like a small price to pay to me. |
USAA is our main carrier. They don't have agreed value policies. I haven't called State farm. Sometimes agents will sell a "stated value" as an agreed type policy but "stated value" is actually the max value of the policy, not the agreed or guaranteed value. What USAA told me way back when was that the $30K I put into the bus did not establish a value for the bus but rather it was deferred maintenance prior owners didn't do for 40+ years. On a regular policy they would look only at buses that sold in the immediate area and adjust for condition. So in their eyes, a 1977 fully restored bus might be worth $4K if all the comps are dogs. Agreed value is the only way to go with a collector antique vehicle, which these are. Gary said it exactly like it is. There are plenty of thieves out there who will take a bus in a heartbeat, especially clean ones. The USA is clearly a 3rd world country when it comes to crime and fraud. Anyway, I updated my post because I didn't want anyone to be misled by posts from prior years on policies from USAA or American Collectors that include pleasure drives to National Parks etc.. They told me that even a drive to Yosemite would not be insured under the new policy. A pleasure drive to your favorite hamburger joint is maybe 20 miles. A 150 mile drive to a National Park is not a pleasure drive in their eyes. American Bankers said the main thing they care about is no off-road events. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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plywoodkid Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2018 Posts: 217 Location: Ventura County, CA
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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SGkent speaks the truth.
American Collectors is a third party from USAA.
They cover travel to any club event or gathering. Also, they allow one day a week for normal driving. On my policy, I cannot exceed 7,500 miles per year my Agreed Upon Value. And yes, no camping trips. I day camp at the beach, so I’m covered.
I don’t daily drive it anymore so that’s fine. But when I daily drove, it was Farmers that I paid about $115 a month for an agreed upon value of $25K. Outrageous for my age and a great driving record.
The truth of the matter is no one likes to insure for Agreed Upon Value. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22668 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 5:00 am Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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Remember that each State regulates insurance policies so Grifter Insurance in State A may have completely different policies and conditions in State B. _________________ .ssS! |
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scubasteve321 Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2015 Posts: 247
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 12:43 am Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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I was denied and denied and denied again calling around due to getting a red light ticket for turning right on red without fully stopping (camera ticket), losing the fight against it, not paying it, then getting my license suspended due to non payment of ticket
I reinstated my license ASAP (within a week)
That was two years ago, but, in many insurers eyes, they just see suspended license, and bundle me in same category of all other reasons license may be suspended without any consideration of circumstances
tldr; I have an agreed value policy with State Farm, for both my 71s, limited mileage at 2,500 a year, 'garaged', 35 a month for each bus,
I was with geico paying 140 for one bus, and they were only going to pay me for the MSRP when it was new MINUS depreciation
State Farm's agents are levels above anyone else I've dealt with, I'd suggest calling a local state farm office, not sure if their corporate number holds up and of course ymmv _________________ 1971 Campmobile Tin-Top
1971 Campmobile Pop-Top
1974 VW Bus |
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jtauxe Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004 Posts: 5780 Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 8:05 am Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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richparker wrote: |
I don’t understand the issue people are having with insurance. Is it because many are calling companies that specialize in classic cars or is it a state issue?
When I was with State Farm, I was able to get an agreed value with regular full coverage with no limitations. I have since switch all my cars and my house to Liberty Mutual and I was able to get all the same policy’s I had with State Farm, even got a higher agreed value. All it took was a bunch of pics and a few classified ads of the same year and model bus. All three of my cars have the same coverage, full comp and collision with $250 deductible and $0 glass deductible with a $30k agreed value on my bus. ~$2400 a year for all 3 policy's. $65/month for each vehicle seems like a small price to pay to me. |
I talked to you some time ago about this, and then talked to my local State Farm agent. They said that sure, you can get that in Colorado, but not in New Mexico. So differences between states is a thing.
I ended up with an agreed value policy from Hagerty with NO STORAGE OR DRIVING RESTRICTIONS, which was very important to me. I can park the truck outside, drive it to the dump -- whatever. _________________ John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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TrollFromDownBelow Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2005 Posts: 414 Location: Metro Detroit
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 10:59 am Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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jtauxe wrote: |
I ended up with an agreed value policy from Hagerty with NO STORAGE OR DRIVING RESTRICTIONS, which was very important to me. I can park the truck outside, drive it to the dump -- whatever. |
I'm pretty sure Hagerty doesn't cover camping... _________________ 1976 Westy (aka Tripod)
2.0 liter FI solid lifters
212k miles |
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Mberglo Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2020 Posts: 383 Location: Huntsville, AL
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 11:53 am Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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I've been using Hagerty for 20 years. They've come through on my one claim. I recently updated the value of my bus to $35k, based on their valuation page. They didn't even request photos. I think it was $240 per year. I keep it garaged, but have no limitations for usage, so long as it's not my daily.
Why would anyone care if you use it for camping? I'd be more worried about driving through Atlanta than I would sitting under a tree for a weekend. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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The camping exclusion is in most agreed value policies. They have it on their web pages too. The problem seems to be that if they make an exception and insure one for camping they must insure all or someone claims discrimination. Some people park near a trail head in the boonies and wander off for a day. That doesn't work for the insurance companies with the lower risk policies.
The policy came in today. It is an American Bankers policy thru Geico Portfolio, and has exclusions for racing and off road use. Premium was $528. I keep premium coverage on my policies so that reflects that. The prior policy pigged backed off my daily driver coverage and the premium was $300 a year so this isn't bad. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Slip356 Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2006 Posts: 394
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Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:29 am Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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I worked in the insurance industry for 50 years prior to retirement 3 years ago.
Here’s my take. The person you talk with on the phone is a salesman, not an underwriter. Underwriters make the final decisions, not the salesman.
You might need to fight to speak with an underwriter but it’s what you need to do to get the facts.
If an agent tells you something that seems fishey, have him put it in writing.
Be sure you understand the difference between ‘stated’ and ‘agreed’ value coverage. It’s well defined in above posts and is critical you understand.
You want agreed value only and be certain to understand the limitations of what your buying or you will get screwed when you have a claim. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:35 am Post subject: Re: insurance on restored 1978 Westfalia |
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Slip356 wrote: |
I worked in the insurance industry for 50 years prior to retirement 3 years ago.
Here’s my take. The person you talk with on the phone is a salesman, not an underwriter. Underwriters make the final decisions, not the salesman.
You might need to fight to speak with an underwriter but it’s what you need to do to get the facts.
If an agent tells you something that seems fishey, have him put it in writing.
Be sure you understand the difference between ‘stated’ and ‘agreed’ value coverage. It’s well defined in above posts and is critical you understand.
You want agreed value only and be certain to understand the limitations of what your buying or you will get screwed when you have a claim. |
Ironically back in 2008 when we bought this bus Haggerty agreed to cover the camping, an underwriter accepted the exception. A week later I got a call from the Haggerty VP who said she was over-ruling the underwriter of 20+ years and cancelling the policy because of the camping exception the underwriter allowed. Was afraid Insurance Commissioner would ask why they allowed it on one policy but declined it on others. That said, ANY insurance policy must be reviewed for coverage. This new policy says essentially depreciated values but then there is a rider attached and made a part of the policy deleting that paragraph and inserting agreed value.
The rub for me is that many of these companies allow for weekend pleasure drives. Let's say I live in Los Angeles and decide to drive to San Diego or Las Vegas on a pleasure drive for the weekend. I have to stay somewhere at night. A Chevelle owner might stay at a Hilton while a VW bus owner might decide to stay with his/her bus at a KOA. Cars get stolen out of, and broken into when they are in hotel parking lots too. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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