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EVfun
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Joined: April 01, 2012
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Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:21 pm Post subject: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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I was wondering if anyone was running a side exit exhaust system on a buggy. Something like this. There are a number of similar types of systems available for type 1, 2, and 3 cars. If this has been done I'd love to see pictures. I am also curious if the type 1 or type 2 system works better in a buggy. Looking at pictures of the systems it seems like the Bus systems might lay more flat against the back of the engine.
I know a 4 into 1 header is a better choice for power and driveability but don't like the cluttered look of the exhaust system covering up the engine, especially the baja type systems that get above the crank pulley and kinda in the way of working back there.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
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Last edited by EVfun on Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Letterman7
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Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 3198
Location: Downingtown, PA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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Custom build from a pair of dual low cannons, facing forward. Loops around into a pair of Harley pipes. Surprisingly quiet until you get on the gas. I miss that car.... |
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cbeck
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Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:53 am Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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Just throwing this out there. 2054, wedgeport heads, only available in 1 5/8 at the time.
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oprn
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Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12737
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| I know a 4 into 1 header is a better choice for power and driveability but don't like the cluttered look of the exhaust system covering up the engine, especially the baja type systems that get above the crank pulley and kinda in the way of working back there. |
I hear you loud and clear! I too had issues with putting a bag of hot snakes right where I want to work. I also didn't like how both of my Buggies ran with dual cannons although the one with the stock center mounted carb was not near as bad as the one with dual carbs.
The system you posted looks good to me but I wonder about three things. Is the tubing size right for your engine? How will you support the weight of the muffler? Is the price reasonable?
I ended up going back to dual cannons to keep the exhaust away from the rear of the engine on my street Buggy (type 4 cooling fan) but paired them properly. None of the typical dual cannon issues now! And I like the look.
On this sand rail I have gone to a try Y system and single side muffler but I didn't want to have any of it underneath to catch rocks and stumps on. This is purely an off road car. So I have ended up with a pipe in the way but tried to minimize it and have access to the carb, distributor and crank pulley. I realize this won't work on your street buggy but with some ingenuity and a bit of welding there are lots of possibilities.
This is what I built for the street Buggy.
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oprn
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Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:04 am Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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I also wonder if dual cannons with longer front cylinder primaries would work better than the usual short ones. I suspect they would but how much better I don't know. Maybe not enough better.
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EVfun
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Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5481
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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| oprn wrote: |
I also wonder if dual cannons with longer front cylinder primaries would work better than the usual short ones. I suspect they would but how much better I don't know. Maybe not enough better.
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I think at that point EMPI "power pipes" might be a better choice. With a pair of 2 barrel carbs you would basically have 4 separate 1 cylinder engines on a common crank.
I was thinking that a side exit system might offer the advantage of a 4 into 1 system but still stay out of the way so the back of the engine shows (and no worry about a burn when reaching for the distributor.) Plus, I like loud a lot less than I did 30 years ago!
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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oprn
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Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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Oooo! I love the Power pipe look! I have no doubt there could be some power gain with those too at a certain rpm but I am like you. I have an issue with loud exhaust too. It's cool for a quick blast but on a road trip? Nope!
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didget69
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Joined: July 22, 2004
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Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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| oprn wrote: |
I also wonder if dual cannons with longer front cylinder primaries would work better than the usual short ones. I suspect they would but how much better I don't know. Maybe not enough better.
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This design is proven to be ineffective.
bnc
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oprn
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Posts: 12737
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:00 am Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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| didget69 wrote: |
This design is proven to be ineffective.
bnc |
Ineffective for.... noise reduction... getting the exhaust away from the engine and out back... power gains at xx rpms... reducing the cylinder imbalance over short primaries... satisfying the 1 into 4 crowd... nostalgic appearance? And why this particular one over other dual cannons?
Incomplete thought.
I'm not trying to say they are the best by any means, just less bad than the short ones I had. If you have personal experiance with them and/or data lets hear it.
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Luftwagen 2180
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Joined: November 24, 2020
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Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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Now I'm curious. I ran the dual cannons like the above pic when I first put my buggy on the road in 1973. They sounded good to me then, however I was a bit younger then. About 15 years ago I got the dual cannons with the baffles that go inside, EXTREMLY loud without the baffles, much quieter with. I noticed that there was a large flat washer halfway up the baffle, but not near the size of the cannon. Exhaust could just go around the baffles and straight out. I welded in a larger washer to get a really close fit and it made the noise that much quieter. I'm in the market for a new exhaust again and want to stay with the duals. However I've noticed that all the new ones have a really short pipe on #1 and 3. I'm running a Holley progressive and it's working well for me. I borrowed an old exhaust like in the above pic, and found them too loud for me at highway speed.
My question is, do the short pipes on #1 and 3 make a noticeable difference? CIP seems out of stock on just about all the duals right now anyway. Is it worth looking for ones with longer #1 and 3 pipes?
Thanx |
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EVfun
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Posts: 5481
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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| Luftwagen 2180 wrote: |
Now I'm curious. I ran the dual cannons like the above pic when I first put my buggy on the road in 1973. They sounded good to me then, however I was a bit younger then. About 15 years ago I got the dual cannons with the baffles that go inside, EXTREMLY loud without the baffles, much quieter with. I noticed that there was a large flat washer halfway up the baffle, but not near the size of the cannon. Exhaust could just go around the baffles and straight out. I welded in a larger washer to get a really close fit and it made the noise that much quieter. I'm in the market for a new exhaust again and want to stay with the duals. However I've noticed that all the new ones have a really short pipe on #1 and 3. I'm running a Holley progressive and it's working well for me. I borrowed an old exhaust like in the above pic, and found them too loud for me at highway speed.
My question is, do the short pipes on #1 and 3 make a noticeable difference? CIP seems out of stock on just about all the duals right now anyway. Is it worth looking for ones with longer #1 and 3 pipes?
Thanx |
I don't know how well or poorly that intake responds to dune buggy duals. There is a low exit version of dual cannons with longer primaries. It is designed for use with stock heater boxes or J-tubes. It is EMPI part #18-1048.
I have a set of Dansk reproduction 1973 Thing mufflers to run on my buggy. My idea was a quiet split dual exhaust that hopefully it doesn't hurt the idle and low end power.
I had this thought about mounting the mufflers backwards, tail pipes pointing forwards, and then running the exhaust up under the car, somewhat like Letterman7 did on the Manx SR (cool car!). That way I could run a set of Lakes Pipes down the sides for a sort of hot rod T period look. That lasted until I held one of the mufflers up to the engine backwards and realized it would hit the axles.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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oprn
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Posts: 12737
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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| Luftwagen 2180 wrote: |
My question is, do the short pipes on #1 and 3 make a noticeable difference? CIP seems out of stock on just about all the duals right now anyway. Is it worth looking for ones with longer #1 and 3 pipes? Thanx |
I have only owned and driven the short 1 & 3 version so I cannot say for certain if the long version is better but in my mind I cannot help but think that the further from the exhaust valve the two cylinder's merge the less they would effect one another. It HAS to be an improvement.
I can however tell you that the closer the carb is to the intake valve the worse the dual cannon's effect is. My dual single barrel Kadrons ran considerably worse with cannons than my stock center mounted single Solex.
| EVfun wrote: |
I don't know how well or poorly that intake responds to dune buggy duals. There is a low exit version of dual cannons with longer primaries. It is designed for use with stock heater boxes or J-tubes. It is EMPI part #18-1048.
I have a set of Dansk reproduction 1973 Thing mufflers to run on my buggy. My idea was a quiet split dual exhaust that hopefully it doesn't hurt the idle and low end power.
I had this thought about mounting the mufflers backwards, tail pipes pointing forwards, and then running the exhaust up under the car, somewhat like Letterman7 did on the Manx SR (cool car!). That way I could run a set of Lakes Pipes down the sides for a sort of hot rod T period look. That lasted until I held one of the mufflers up to the engine backwards and realized it would hit the axles. |
After Manx SR's post I came very close to suggesting just that exact thing! Lakes Pipes would suit your Buggy to a tee! I had not thought about the axles being in the way... you would have to put a hump up over them like the old time American cars did over the rear axle.
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Letterman7
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Location: Downingtown, PA
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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| The system I welded up (poorly) slid well under the axle on the way up. Since I was using Harley pipes, I didn't worry about a muffler per se. For lake pipes you could do the same basic thing - find your pipes, then find an insert (like for the dual cannons) to fit the pipes - or make your own fiberglass inserts. Lawn tractor mufflers are a good source for compact cylinder style mufflers to go in-line right off the header, too. |
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EVfun
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Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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| Letterman7 wrote: |
| The system I welded up (poorly) slid well under the axle on the way up. Since I was using Harley pipes, I didn't worry about a muffler per se. For lake pipes you could do the same basic thing - find your pipes, then find an insert (like for the dual cannons) to fit the pipes - or make your own fiberglass inserts. Lawn tractor mufflers are a good source for compact cylinder style mufflers to go in-line right off the header, too. |
With my Thing mufflers they would hit the axle tube. Mounted the right way they hang all the way back to the pulley. I took the tips back off and likely won't run them as the mufflers end far enough back (may make some short slash tips in stainless.) The problems with lakes pipes -- a new exhaust out back with new mufflers, the added complexity with the extra pipes and hangers somewhat defeating my simplicity theme, and the swoopy fenders don't have a great line for lakes pipes to easily follow.
I started hoping to see some pictures of buggies with side exit exhaust systems. I saw an engine on a stand with one and it looked like it might be a viable option, but I could not find any pictures of such a system on a buggy. It seems like a 4 into 1 system that is out of the way while offering good ground clearance and good engine access. Here is a Bus showing this type of system.
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| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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oprn
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Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 4:27 am Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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It looks like you might have to pioneer the concept!
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Letterman7
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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This is/was the exhaust for my last Sterling (sold years ago). It had a type4 engine, but same concept would work for a T1. All off the shelf parts, though the collector had to be somewhat modded to fit around the pipes. Pipes go under the axle, and back up around over - the mufflers hung over at the highest bounce point of the axle. Those long cylindrical items are heat exchangers from some watercooled VW.. I can't recall at the moment.. that I was experimenting with a self-contained recirculating water heating system. It did almost work.. after a while the system would boil the contents though 
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
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Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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I run a standard rear exit header with the Hide-Away muffler that tucks in on the right side. The only concern you would have with a Dunebuggy is rear tire clearance with wide rear tires.
As far as performance goes there will be no difference between a 4-into-1 header that exits out the rear or that exits out the side.
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oprn
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:36 am Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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| Letterman7 wrote: |
This is/was the exhaust for my last Sterling (sold years ago). It had a type4 engine, but same concept would work for a T1. All off the shelf parts, though the collector had to be somewhat modded to fit around the pipes. Pipes go under the axle, and back up around over - the mufflers hung over at the highest bounce point of the axle. Those long cylindrical items are heat exchangers from some watercooled VW.. I can't recall at the moment.. that I was experimenting with a self-contained recirculating water heating system. It did almost work.. after a while the system would boil the contents though
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Very interesting! Love the concept but yes I can see the problem with the heating medium boiling. A light oil would have given you a higher boiling point. Some sort of bypass in the exhaust would be better.
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Letterman7
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 5:15 am Post subject: Re: Side exit exhaust on a buggy? |
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Very interesting! Love the concept but yes I can see the problem with the heating medium boiling. A light oil would have given you a higher boiling point. Some sort of bypass in the exhaust would be better.[/quote]
 I didn't think about a bypass (well, I did, but for the fluid) and couldn't figure a way to logically make it work. And I did research high boiling point salt based solutions. Costs were prohibitive |
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