Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Steve M.
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6798
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
Steve M. is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:57 am    Post subject: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

So I was sleeping on the creeper under the Syncro the other day and dreamed this nightmare.


Link


Please give me your opinions whether I can solve this by tightening the adjusting nut or if I'm looking at dropping the transaxle to reset the backlash (if I really need to drop it?)

The Drivers side has zero play or at least none I can see without puuting a gauge on it.

Right now I've got both rear axles out and running on the front diff.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17014
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

Normal. The splines stubs are not a press fit into the differential or the cv flange. I’m pretty sure it’s not the actual differential moving on the carrier bearings.
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve M.
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6798
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
Steve M. is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Normal. The splines stubs are not a press fit into the differential or the cv flange. I’m pretty sure it’s not the actual differential moving on the carrier bearings.


Well that is a big WHEW! It wasn't doing that last time I was down there and I never saw it on my '84 or '86 Vanagon.

I didn't see any in/out movement of the shaft.

I'll go ahead and replace the cv boots just so I can replace them again and again...

On the plus side my VC works!
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve M.
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6798
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
Steve M. is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

Next question - aren't the splines wearing if it is doing this?
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17014
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

You’d need to do some exploration. First step would be to remove the cap and redo your test. The cv flange should have a circlip with a concave washer under it. In a sense it spring loads the cv flange.

With the cap off, you can watch what’s actually moving. It’s possible the concave washer is missing. Next step would be to remove the flange and see if another one is tighter if the flange is moving on the shaft.

Beyond that, you are going in and pulling the differential for inspection.
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve M.
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6798
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
Steve M. is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
You’d need to do some exploration. First step would be to remove the cap and redo your test. The cv flange should have a circlip with a concave washer under it. In a sense it spring loads the cv flange.

With the cap off, you can watch what’s actually moving. It’s possible the concave washer is missing. Next step would be to remove the flange and see if another one is tighter if the flange is moving on the shaft.

Beyond that, you are going in and pulling the differential for inspection.


Thanks Mark.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17014
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

YW.
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50261

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

So long as the seal can hold the oil in then the slop isn't a big deal for most, but if you are intending to drive from Alaska to Terra del Fuego you might want to get new output shafts, flanges, bushing before heading out.

With the crappy gear oils that were available 40-50 years ago, the wear in this area seemed much more common, it seemed that every old rear engine VW I saw 30 years ago suffered from this problem, while today less so.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve M.
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6798
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
Steve M. is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

For closure on this thread I did pull the flange off and check the splines on the flange and shaft.
They still look like they are in good shape.
So while this scares the crap out of me I'll drive it.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17014
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

Time for those 930 CV's Wink Did you figure out where the actual play was coming from?
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve M.
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6798
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
Steve M. is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Time for those 930 CV's Wink Did you figure out where the actual play was coming from?


Try as I did I could not get the flange to move by hand. This surprised me as I thought I had a disaster on my hand.
I really didn't feel like cleaning the CV's to inspect them as I was out of paper towels so just wrapped them up in ziolock bags for future cleaning. These Cv's were put in in 2018 and this one I changed in Moab and the boot didn't last 3 months. Changed the boot and it lasted another short period of time and it was winter in Norfolk without a garage so I left it.
When I did pull it a few weeks ago there was still plenty of grease on it and surpisingly found no dirt/ sand in the grease even though the grease did come out to make a mess!

This CV did flop about real loosely on the axle, but they all do that after being driven. This one seemed especially loose though. There wasn't any rotational play in the forward or reverse direction that I could feel.

I drove a 68 Bus in the Mojave Desert and the boots on that didn't last long in the heat. I gave up changing them and drove the CV until fail. I can't say I ever had a CV come apart from the abuse I gave them on the dirt roads out there and I went on dirt roads everyday. They did start to chatter some! Very Happy
That Bus had 4"+ lift on it al the way round and 10" wide rims on the rear.
So I do know these CV's will take that abuse as unwarranted as it is. Ideally if these dam boots held up the CV could conceivably be good for hundred thousand miles if maintained with a regular re-greasing schedule. They just need a better boot.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17014
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

Steve, did you notice this thread? https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=745007&highlight=cv

We installed 4 of these on a owner's van. Too soon to tell how they will last. Completely different material from the rubber we are accustom to.
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve M.
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6798
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
Steve M. is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Steve, did you notice this thread? https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=745007&highlight=cv

We installed 4 of these on a owner's van. Too soon to tell how they will last. Completely different material from the rubber we are accustom to.


No, haven't seen it, but you just opened my sleepy eyes!

Unfortunately these look for be 2wd size and not the 108mm size I have. Crying or Very sad
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve M.
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6798
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
Steve M. is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

I'm going to have to measure the inner ring on the flanges where the boot mates to the flange.
The size I have is the 108mm, but wondering if the boot size really changes between the flanges.
I'm assuming they do, but not sure.
If they are the same then I'll try to get these Twigging boots on mine to try.

Thanks for the link Mark.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jberger
Samba Member


Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476

jberger is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

Steve M. wrote:
I'm going to have to measure the inner ring on the flanges where the boot mates to the flange.
The size I have is the 108mm, but wondering if the boot size really changes between the flanges.
I'm assuming they do, but not sure.
If they are the same then I'll try to get these Twigging boots on mine to try.

Thanks for the link Mark.


2wd and Syncro cv's are the same diameter... unless you have a 16" or 930's?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jberger
Samba Member


Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476

jberger is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

I also agree that there can be "some" play in the differential carrier bearing... that movement looks extreme. I'm guessing the diff will load itself against alternating faces of the left and right bearings under torque from the pinion. Have you tested the oil? What's the history of the box?

J
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve M.
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6798
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
Steve M. is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

jberger wrote:
I also agree that there can be "some" play in the differential carrier bearing... that movement looks extreme. I'm guessing the diff will load itself against alternating faces of the left and right bearings under torque from the pinion. Have you tested the oil? What's the history of the box?

J


I have Syncro 16 since 2016 so the CV's are the larger 108mm ones.

The history of the box is 5:83 R&P ratio spinning 29.3" tires. Easy 2 finger shifting. Added the gearbox cooling system in early 2018.
Using Swepco 202 in it since 2017 and yearly oil changes.
Found the usual metal sludge on the magnet when I first drained it, nothing extreme.
Still running the 2.1wbx so no over stressing of it by increased h.p.
Highest temp recorded was 170° against a headwind on a hot August day heading to Devil's Tower in 2018.
Recent temps in one hour drives @70mph have not exceeded 150-154° at ambient high temps of 86° max.
All in all seems to be running well, but always wary of 202,00 miles on the gearbox.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17014
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 4:09 am    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

Yes, the cv would be 100mm stock so those wouldn’t work. The syncro 16 seems to have more rare parts than I imagined.
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve M.
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6798
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
Steve M. is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 4:41 am    Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle R&P Bearing play Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Yes, the cv would be 100mm stock so those wouldn’t work. The syncro 16 seems to have more rare parts than I imagined.


The front outer CV was the scariest 2yrs. No longer being made and out of stock every where.
I was able to finally get a used pair off Seth in Santa Barbara and Burley Motor Sports finally has new ones. So I bought enough to cover the next 20 yrs. I do not think they are original Syncro 16 CV's, but they fit and work. The other option was to put, gods forbid, a 14" front outer cv in. My ancesters would not allow that to happen.

The next unobtainium part to find is the rear drum brake backing plate. I'm goingvto discs, but I know someone whi needs a set.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.