Rear Suspension Torsion Bar Diameter

[cseay1]

My 68 Ghia seems to have a weak torsion bar on the driver's side, not only does it sag that side but it is much easier to jounce the suspension on that side. Looks like 60-66 torsion bars were 21-3/4" x 22mm, while 67-68 torsion bars were 21-3/4" x 21mm (supposedly to give softer ride with the addition of the Z-bar). Looking at new replacement torsion bars, looks like the smallest diameter bar that Sway-A-Way makes in a 21-3/4" long is 24mm. Is anyone running these? How stiff is the suspension? I would think a little stiffer would be good on a lowered suspension to keep from bottoming out, but I don't want a buckboard ride.

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=720

[Ian Godfrey]

I run 28mm in my road race ghia and they are very 'firm', i have also had 23.5 (very close to your 24's) and they were a good compromise for street.
You will need new rubber or urathane bushes and maybe better shocks to control the stiffer bars. Koni red adjustable are nice. Bilstein are very stiff for the street.

[cseay1]

There are a few places that show NOS VW 21.75inx21mm torsion bars which would be original for 67-68, but would fit 60-66 but be slightly softer than the original 21.75inx22mm torsion bars. Although they physically interchange left to right, they are different part numbers as they are pre-test loaded in one direction.

113-511-115 21.75inx21mm LH
113-511-116 21.75inx21mm RH

[danielsan]

I'm using the 24s on my 71 -- if you set the angle to the specs recommended by sway away for a stock height car it improves the ride. The ride is less harsh that it was with my stock bars and worn out bushings. The only (unexpected) difference is that it corners a bit better. I used the stock OEM rubber bushing with talc . . .

[cseay1]

Looking at the spring rate chart on Sway-A-Ways website it's amazing how much it increases with the size of the bar (values are inch-pounds per degree of rotation)

21-3/4" bars

20mm 401
21mm 488
22mm 598
23mm 702
24mm 832
25mm 979
26mm 1145
27mm 1333
28mm 1651
29mm 1774
30mm 2031

Would you say that the 24's are actually "comfortable" on the street or just "liveable"

[danielsan]

More comfortable than before and more comfortable than the time I reset tired, original diameter bars. I put the angle at about 15 degrees instead of 21 something that the manual called for and I have stock height and a more comfortable ride.

[cseay1]

thanks for the input .. sounds like the 24's are a win-win with good ride and better handling .. thanks!

[carlk3]

My '64 Ghia convertible is sagging pretty badly in the rear. The rear suspension has probably never been touched except that I recently put on new shocks from Wolfsburg West. To give you an idea, this is how I have to adjust the headlights:

I get the impression from reading these forums that simply adjusting the rear torsion bars might not be enough; I'd be better off replacing them. I'm striving for originality here.

Is 21-3/4" long x 22mm the correct size torsion bar for the '64 Ghia convertible? Where can I buy a new pair?

I want to adjust to stock specs. What's a good protractor to use and where can I get it?

[Ian Godfrey]

I would keep your old bars, they don't 'wear out'. make sure you mark them left and right. Get good quality, rubber bushes from some where like wolfsberg west.
a tool like this is adequate for this job:
https://www.totaltools.com.au/123720-kincrome-angle-finder-magnetic-base-k11076 or there are phone apps or digital gauges for $50 or so. Also buy/make the tool to safely raise and lower the spring plate under tension
Set the body level with the angle finder on the door sill then set the torsion bars. As others have suggested talc (baby powder) is a great lubricant for the bushes. be prepared to have to do it more than once if you are not happy with the height at the rear, or if side to side is a bit out.
the different number of splines on each end of the torsion bar lets you adjust very finely and you get quicker at it

[carlk3]

I took me a long time, but I got 'er done. I found these instructions helpful:The Rear Suspension. I wound up moving the passenger torsion bar by two increments, and the driver's by one. The car is just about level now.

I took a drive up a canyon, and I don't think the handling is improved any (I guess lower is better for that), except maybe when it comes to bump steer. But it is good, once you get used to the characteristics of rear-engine swing axle (pre Z bar) handling. I don't hear as many creaking sounds when going over bumps as I used to. My bushings were really shot. I could see where there had been some metal-to-metal contact.

Real talcum powder is hard to come by these days. I think there were/are some lawsuits about it being associated with cancer. I found this on Amazon: Rema Tire Talc: 16.0oz Canister, which I think will be a lifetime supply, but I've already been using it on my bicycle tires and tubes.

Now, to readjust my headlights.

[Ian Godfrey]

I'm glad that job worked out well for you
a camber compensator in the rear does wonders for improving the handling on a swing axle ghia. Good shocks help a lot as well.

[carlk3]

[gator]

Been working on my '70 convertible, replaced the kybs on the rear with stock oil shocks, and the car was noticeably higher on the passenger side. I popped the spring plates (needed to replace bushings anyway) and the preload angle seemed about the same on either side (I could tell the passenger side had been apart before). This makes me wonder about the torsion bars being worn. The car was pretty clapped out when I got it 20some years ago. Erring on the side of 'I don't want to do this again,' I am in search of new torsion bars.

Is there a vendor that sells stockish diameter new torsion bars for these late model cars? All I've found in my search are 28mm bars which are way too stiff.

Thanks in advance!

[Ian Godfrey]

I don't think torsion bars 'wear', they just sag a little and take a 'set'.
unless they are badly rusted, I'd just put new bushings in and reset them to the stock angle and I think they will hold that height for many years.
If you are after something a bit firmer, the rear of most 924's and early 944's have 23.5mm bars which are really nice for sporty driving.
note for future readers: The porsche torsion bars only suit IRS cars, (not swing axle)

[gator]

Cool deal. Thanks.
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[carlk3]