Fact vs Fiction on the H0 H1 H5 case with a small twist!

[krisbeetle]

Yes I have searched and not just this year!

Looking for first hand Accounts!

The with a twist part is can someone CREDIBLE confirm or deny that the H5 specific case is or is not california/emissions specific issue? (lean or running hot fatigue ect issue)

As I am in Canada and i have heard rumor that the H5 is more like the H0 in its material integrity, is this true?

I see alot of ambiguous information when I search.... a friend a buddy yada yada..... and then first hand accounts of guys such as rock crusher or crusher who states to send him all your H5 cases and he will run em on the drag strip.

to repeat..... no do not say "run one and find out the hard way".... first hand experience only.... un knowledgeable repeaters need not post!

btw this is coming from a practical mindset of at this point in Canada with the FACT that these cars are 99% of time used as 6-2 month a year hobby cars that 20,000 miles may look like 15-30 years of use.

I have a H5 with 85.5 jugs otherwise stock with tight endplay that that I would guess was rebuilt under 15-20 k ago...

[Teeroy]

Stock, in a bug or ghia you'll be fine. I had a H5 case in my 68 beetle back in high school, used to drive it across the state (300 miles each way, with a serious mt pass) never an issue. Put same engine in my 59 panel with reduction box, drove it another 5 years, was still running fine when I sold it. I would not build a HP engine with one (small oil galleys), but a stock engine is fine, I would install case savers if doing a full tear down
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[frenchroast]

First hand experience. I'm rebuilding my H5 motor for the second time in 190k miles. On the first rebuild at 70k I had a shop deep stud 3, case savers on the rest, a line bore and new Cofap 85.5's. I'm doing the second rebuild now and the 1 and 3 saddles were perfect. I had the second line bore done anyway last week because I could see the faint bearing markings and the bearing crush was just o.k. on the #2 saddle. A snap gauge showed it at +.003; right at the wear spec range. End play was like new. The thrust is original; never needed it cut. This is a 100% stock motor; no filter, single relief, etc. Bottom line is the H5 is just fine for stock motors and can run a good long time with zero issues. Regular dino 30w oil changes, valve adjust, etc. I only did the bottom end rebuild on this because I suspected the lifters were flat after 120k miles (they were).

[AlteWagen]

Back in the day DR cases were not easy to come by as many were still on the road. In the junk yard you mainly got 40hp cores with a few Type 2 1500s here and there. A late SP 1500/1600 was the best you could hope for which were usually H or B cases. I built several 1835 and 1914 on the HO and H5 SR cases with no issues like cracking or such. The main thing I remember about these cases was the studs pulling which was remedied with case savers. For the 1914s I did have the plate welded in behind the number 3 but also had the top deep studded as well which I think is the real reason for no cracking. Back then I would get the core case and all the machine work done for $300 (line bore, bore for larger cylinder, case savers, deep stud, weld behind #3, full flow w/weld reinforcement, remove and tap galley plugs, extend oil pickup, deck case). One hot 1914 I ran in my late teens had 13:1 compression and lasted 3 long years of abuse before it got swapped out for a 2 liter. The case was still in great condition after all this time and a few years ago was built into a TW 1835 for a buddy. At the last few shops I worked at it seems all they sold were H case builds unless owner specified new case. On the come backs there was usually something else that was the issue never the case itself.

For a driver get the case savers and deep stud done and you will not have to worry any more than any other original case build.
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[Chickensoup]

A local guy is running a 2332 with like 50k miles on it...

Using an H5 case.

I think the condition and tolerances matter more.
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[krisbeetle]

Excellent first hand experience, altewagon I know that you are in europe. Where are you from Frenchroast?
Just asking because part of the theory I have heard that makes the most sense is the california emissions.... running hotter? And therefore fatiguing material??

Also due to the nature of how big a voice/ car culture/ heat/ miles put on in California... I'm wanting to understand if that has bearing on H case issue.

All my h cases have case savers.... so maybe that's why they havent pulled.... but I have heard people say worst case material 30% cottage cheese ect.... what was the material difference?

Also I want to wholeheartedly hear from people who have had H case issues.... I dont just want to hear the good.... feel free to post! Looking for the truth good or bad!

[AlteWagen]

[Slow 1200]

At this point in time there might be a survivorship bias. I'd love to see the differences between H5 and H0 case composition, it's also a fact that H5 engines were tuned differently (leaner jetting, TDC timing), and in any case case savers and deep studding do seem to make a big difference in longevity

[frenchroast]

[krisbeetle]

[67rustavenger]

[QRP]

[Slow 1200]

If someone has a Type 1 or 2 parts book published between august 67 and july 69 we could see if the part number for the crankcase is different for M157 engines (H5 or B5) and rest of the world 1500/1600s (H0 or B0), which would hint that the case composition is indeed different as stated by many people, I used to agree but I'm not sure anymore.

later part books show the same dual relief case as the spare part for all engines

[krisbeetle]

So they are supposedly soft cases..... but we have a couple accounts of saddles not getting pounded out....

Was this mostly just head studs pulling out of cases?

So was it a softer material? Where does this wide spread knowledge come from?

Or Is this from people without torque wrenches cranking these things down as much as they can and with increased displacement it would pull the stud vs a 1200?

Where are all the guys who normally pipe up saying these things aren't even good for a boat anchor? YES I read that on this site

[FarmerBill]

I had an H0 case 1600 sp in a 71 bus/camper. It pulled me and 3 other people, and all our crap all over the country. Over the rockies twice, across death valley in late July, all over the cascades for three months. 30,000 miles of well maintained not quite abuse, and it never pulled a stud or cracked. So in my experience you can run them hard in stock form without trouble.

[spencerfvee]

theres nothing wrong with a good H case. back in 1970 my friend built a 69x92 drag race motor .that he raced for 10 years . shifting it at 8,200 rpm he used a deano oil pump . fk 89 cam 48 ida weber carbs super flow heads deano 92s cyl. a stock vw crank yes a stock vw crank stock vw rods . back then he did not have a lot of money lol but it worked . he rebuilt the motor with new bearing after raceing the vw bug all summer . so H cases can hold up . the best single port case is a 1970 .it had every thing a dual port case had . my self i built many h case motors .that i street raced and drag raced at a drag strip back in the 1960s 70s 80s . now a days .you can have better luck finding a good h case . over trying to find a dual port case . cases are getting super hard to find now a days .i went to a vw show and swap meet here in ohio . i could not find any used cases. no vw cranks no fly wheels. vw parts are drying up here in ohio with new cases costing $700.00 to a $1,000.00 back in the early 1960s the first H gas drag race vws like deano and empi .used H cases in there gasser motors. my first all drag race vw with a H case with a holley bug spray carb mallory dizy 69x 92 headers it ran low 14s 1/4 mile i had more fun in that race car i won a lot of races i raced it for 6 years. never rebuilt the the motor. sold the motor to a friend he raced it 3 years. be for it took a rod through the top of the case lol spencerfvee

[krisbeetle]

thanks spence!

Ok..... this thread is the H case black sheep promoter of the samba....

I still want to hear from all the people who have had the soft h case issues talked about for what? 2 decades on this site!....

Please be my guest lookig for truth here..... Be the black sheep of THIS thread and tell us about these terrible H cases! pulling studs... pounding out main bearing saddles early...... I want the BAD news!

also still wondering... what is case composition vs the previous 40hp D case touted to be great.... and vs the as41 ect case (also great) ?


I just just dont get if they were that bad how #1 they were worse than the 40hp material. composition..... (did they try something new? anyone know)

#2 if they were that bad why they weren't recalled back in the day and re cased bastard 40 hp style.... if you catch my drift....

You know if it was that big a deal like its made to be.... tons of bugs sold in that time frame.... they would have had a number of people putting high miles on them and the low oil pressure and stud pulling issue would have caused a larger response by VW....

even in literature such as how progressive refinements sort of shows such things in a way. with VWs response/ progression response to defects......

Out of all of the documentation from dealers posted to this site..,. this is supposedly a BIG issue with guys saying chuck the things even on stock rebuild sometimes....not worth the risk to build upon it....

still searching for proof....... post up!

[spencerfvee]

[oprn]

Interesting thread!

It's starting to look like you are uncovering yet another myth to add to several others already in existence around our air cooled VWs. To tell you the truth I had not heard about the "soft case" thing before I found this site. It's a bit like gossip I think, easy to start a rumor but not so easy to stop one!

Keep up the good work!
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[spencerfvee]