Author |
Message |
tim3 Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 547 Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:30 pm Post subject: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
Anyone want to sell me their rad type 4 fastback automatic. I got good money for a good Type 4 in good running drive it home condition. Can be located anywhere in North America preferably the Westcoast, but will travel great lengths for a nice automatic 2 door or 4 door fasty.
Let me know what you got! _________________ Click to view image |
|
Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34013 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
tim3 Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 547 Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
Lol it looks rad, but first its on the very high end of what id pay for a 411/412. Next the seller hasnt called me back so I dont think they really care to sell that clean example of a 412.
So still accepting offers. I have cash and ready to buy! Sell me your fasty! 😆 _________________ Click to view image |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21519 Location: Oklahoma City
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
tim3 wrote: |
Lol it looks rad, but first its on the very high end of what id pay for a 411/412. Next the seller hasnt called me back so I dont think they really care to sell that clean example of a 412.
So still accepting offers. I have cash and ready to buy! Sell me your fasty! 😆 |
So....what exactly ARE you willing to pay? What's your budget? what exactly do you "think" a good running/rolling/repairable...."drive it home" example of a 411 or 412 is going to cost you?
You are in Cali...this one is in Seattle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2301972
Its Kirk Knightons car. While I'm not a hydraulic lifter fan....this is a rock solid car. Also while its a four speed.....putting in an automatic is a 4 hour job.
This "looks" solid. The two barrel carb is junk (and if its been run that way for a long time its probably time for a basic rebuild)....but he says he is willing to convert back to fuel injection for a buyer.
$6000 might be a bit high for a jigsaw puzzle of a car...but he says it solid, runs and drives. That says a lot.
It also will eventually need a lot....but I think its an OK deal. Certainly worth bargaining.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2301498
This one has some repairable rust....and I would want to see what other rust they has been repaired and how....has dual carbs....which can have some negatives with an automatic depending on which carbs and how its tuned...but its far better than a center mounted 2 barrel...and could be better than fuel injection for a novice if the injection is not running well. Its pretty complete and its a driver. If all checks out $4900 it is a pretty good deal good deal
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2443309
Decent...san fran...probably a bit high....
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2455997
Ray |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tim3 Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 547 Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
Yeah the one in Seattle is nice. I reached out earlier just waiting to hear back.
My idea of a good car is one that runs/drives safely. Could drive it home if I needed to. Body, and mechanics are sound. Preferably good paint and good interior. Mostly complete car with very little personal modifications like air bag suspension systems or some weird body/trim modifications. Generally just a stock or mostly stock fastback. This would be my wifes car since we are having trouble getting her an SP2 here in the states around $20k. _________________ Click to view image |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21519 Location: Oklahoma City
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
tim3 wrote: |
Yeah the one in Seattle is nice. I reached out earlier just waiting to hear back.
My idea of a good car is one that runs/drives safely. Could drive it home if I needed to. Body, and mechanics are sound. Preferably good paint and good interior. Mostly complete car with very little personal modifications like air bag suspension systems or some weird body/trim modifications. Generally just a stock or mostly stock fastback. This would be my wifes car since we are having trouble getting her an SP2 here in the states around $20k. |
Ok! got it!
A few items you need to know...and ask about....as you shop:
1. How much work are you expecting to have to do?...mechanical I mean. Not so much engine and transmission...that can be done. I am talking suspension and brakes.
As a few people here have done really great work shopping for rare suspension parts over the past 3 years....I will NOT say that suspension parts are 100% "unobtanium" for these cars...but nearly so. Most of what you find will have to come from Europe and will be very expensive.
2. To make these safe to drive in traffic on a regular basis....and this is mainly safe from breaking down....but also for good basic handling....virtually all but a VERY few of these cars will need struts, strut mount and bearings, control arm bushings, idler arm bushings, ball joints, center link, tie rod ends and rear shocks at a minimum.
The very few cars....that do not need some or all of these parts ....do not need them..... NOT..... because they are low miles (the miles do not matter. Age alone destroys many of these parts).....but because they have either been replaced...or have been FABRICATED and replaced.
There are enough "how to's" in here to replace struts with something that is better than stock...far better...and available. There are centerlink rebuild how to's.....the ball joints can be had but are VERY rare...get them if you can and buy new boots and install a grease fitting...buy spares....strut mounts have come back because they are close enough to super beetle.....tie rod ends are type 3 parts.....control arm bushings there is a how to for making them from delrin.....radius arm bushings and centering rings how to is out there with measurements.....rear shocks are available but from a different vehicle and need a bushing mod......idler arm bushings (mad of bronze and not the crappy stock one)...are available.
All of this is light fabrication. Any machine shop could do the parts for cheap....or almost all of it can be done on a drill press if you have one. All in all....replacing what needs to be replaced wit ha lot of your own fabrication....can be done for about $500 and parts and materials.....maybe $200 in machine work.....and some work on your part.
But the point is.....that only the rarified few cars.....will have these parts which are minimum required to drive without things constantly rattling and falling apart.
Ray |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tim3 Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 547 Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
I was reading about the suspension woahs on type4s. Sounds like a hassle if the suspension is shot. _________________ Click to view image |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21519 Location: Oklahoma City
|
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
tim3 wrote: |
I was reading about the suspension woahs on type4s. Sounds like a hassle if the suspension is shot. |
Yes.....and virtually all of them are shot from age alone. This does not mean that they will niit drive home. Its just that being strut type suspension.....they will drive like crap....and because of the leverage points and how the parts are loaded......if you have one part that is still fine.....like say a ball joint......connected to another part that is bad....like the strut cartridge......in very short order that dead or weak strut will hammer out both the ball joint and strut mounting.
Same issue with control arm bushings and radius arm centering rings. As the control arm bushings degrade.....they grind up the centering rings. When those are gone.....the radius arm donuts get worn out.
Same issue with the center link......which is a big wear point because it had poorly chosen/incorrect plastic inside.....and the stock bonded rubber idler bushing. They destroy each other.....and sooner or later that motion moves up the food chain. The idler bushing was a defective design. The same part number was used on the super beetle.
Eventually around 1976/77-ish....VW figured it out and started making the part of solid bronze which fixed that. Same price....readily available. Easy to install at home.
The center link......is still fairly available......but its lifespan is roughly 30k miles under the best of conditions. Its TRW part # is DS-858. You can find them for sale NOS.....just by googling "VW 412 center link".
Everywhere from Auto zone to places like this:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/collectorsautosupply....2-1-piece/
They average $60-65.......or you can take the one you have and with a dremel, some sand paper, files and some hobby shop metal to make a backing cap......and a handful of bronze bushings and a snap ring from the hardware store......rebuild it to be better and tigher than stock, get rid of the defectjve plastic....and make it permandntly rebuildable.
My point is that......if you want to safely drive these cars and not wear out some of the rare parts you cannot replace.....along with your tires......virtually all of these cars for sale will need the basics. Ray |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ubercrap Samba Moderator
Joined: July 01, 2004 Posts: 1060 Location: Ridley Park, PA
|
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
Why do you specifically want an auto if you can't find an SP2 in your price out of curiosity? I don't think any of those were auto. _________________ '74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21519 Location: Oklahoma City
|
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
Uber....I think the type 4 is for his wife......Anti-"cancellation" disclaimer: I am not saying that women or people of any sex or gender are not capable of driving a manual transmission....
Also....I am not trying to discourage the OP from buying a 411 or 412.....just know what you are getting into!
Ray |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tim3 Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 547 Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
She is willing to learn to drive a manual, but we have been trying to get an SP2 for a long time. So while we have been waiting she has fallen for the type 4 and if she has a choice of auto or manual she wants auto. Just like if you took your wife to the VW dealer in the early 70s she would likely be making these tough decisions lol 😆 _________________ Click to view image |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tim3 Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 547 Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
You havent discourged me yet. Keep telling me more of the dirty laundry so I can keep my 411/412 safe. Oh yeah and someone sell me your 411/412 fastback. Kirk hasnt messaged me back yet. Id buy his straight up if he hit me back to schedule a time to check it out.
raygreenwood wrote: |
tim3 wrote: |
I was reading about the suspension woahs on type4s. Sounds like a hassle if the suspension is shot. |
Yes.....and virtually all of them are shot from age alone. This does not mean that they will niit drive home. Its just that being strut type suspension.....they will drive like crap....and because of the leverage points and how the parts are loaded......if you have one part that is still fine.....like say a ball joint......connected to another part that is bad....like the strut cartridge......in very short order that dead or weak strut will hammer out both the ball joint and strut mounting.
Same issue with control arm bushings and radius arm centering rings. As the control arm bushings degrade.....they grind up the centering rings. When those are gone.....the radius arm donuts get worn out.
Same issue with the center link......which is a big wear point because it had poorly chosen/incorrect plastic inside.....and the stock bonded rubber idler bushing. They destroy each other.....and sooner or later that motion moves up the food chain. The idler bushing was a defective design. The same part number was used on the super beetle.
Eventually around 1976/77-ish....VW figured it out and started making the part of solid bronze which fixed that. Same price....readily available. Easy to install at home.
The center link......is still fairly available......but its lifespan is roughly 30k miles under the best of conditions. Its TRW part # is DS-858. You can find them for sale NOS.....just by googling "VW 412 center link".
Everywhere from Auto zone to places like this:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/collectorsautosupply....2-1-piece/
They average $60-65.......or you can take the one you have and with a dremel, some sand paper, files and some hobby shop metal to make a backing cap......and a handful of bronze bushings and a snap ring from the hardware store......rebuild it to be better and tigher than stock, get rid of the defectjve plastic....and make it permandntly rebuildable.
My point is that......if you want to safely drive these cars and not wear out some of the rare parts you cannot replace.....along with your tires......virtually all of these cars for sale will need the basics. Ray |
_________________ Click to view image |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21519 Location: Oklahoma City
|
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
tim3 wrote: |
She is willing to learn to drive a manual, but we have been trying to get an SP2 for a long time. So while we have been waiting she has fallen for the type 4 and if she has a choice of auto or manual she wants auto. Just like if you took your wife to the VW dealer in the early 70s she would likely be making these tough decisions lol 😆 |
The type 4's with the 004 four speed....are REALLY nice driving. Its a different animal....slightly....moving light to light than the automatic. But...once you are up to 45 mph-ish....the manual and auto are roughly the same.
I like manual trans...and I like the 004 manual in the type 4....but I warn people who are not into serious work....to avoid the manual in favor of the automatic. Simply because.....virtually all manual type 4 trans need "some" work just to stay alive.....and they have some serious problems when they are driven too far without certain things being addressed.....and there are pretty much "0" parts available save for a handful or bearings.
Ray |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kirk knighton Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2005 Posts: 282 Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
Mine is still here. I haven't listed it anywhere else; maybe it's time I should. Where are some other good sites? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 977 Location: Seattle, Wa
|
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Sell me your totally rad automatic 411/412 fastback! |
|
|
Try OfferUp. I sold my Golf TDI the same afternoon I listed it. The 412 is a very different animal though. I would try anyway.
Bill |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|