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Montreal Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2021 Posts: 9 Location: Montreal Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:31 pm Post subject: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Hello! We are new owners of a 1971 Westy. I consider myself to be rather mechanical but certainly no expert. I want to learn the ins and outs of the engine and be able to do most of the maintenance myself. I have searched the vast information on this site and other resources in an effort to determine what type of engine our Westy has and the more I look the more I seem to be confused. I am thinking the engine is not original to our Westy. I have attached some photos of the engine, VIN, and build plate. Any information and guidance would be much appreciated. Thank you!
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6980 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Likely not original, like the paint job.
The only way to truly know what you have is to be either told by the PO or take it apart and measure the bore and stroke. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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Angus II Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2016 Posts: 707 Location: Mammoth Lakes Ca. 93546
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:32 am Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Hello,
You can post a picture of the engine case numbers that will give you a clue if it's an 71 block (below Alt. stand). But the engine is not in it's stock configuration for sure... And that Alt. backing plate doesn't look correct for the 38 amp. Alt. (just waking up and only one cup of coffee). Run your hand down the rear left side of the fan housing for the stand off oil cooler. If you feel the boxed projection, it has the dog house cooler(a 71 up-grade) That being said, I would doubt it is the correct(stock) engine for the 71 bus. A lot can happen to a bus in 50 years...
I do like the black door jams and beige exterior paint though... It's a pound puppy for sure.
I need another cup of coffee now. |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7623
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 9:44 am Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Angus II wrote: |
Hello,
You can post a picture of the engine case numbers that will give you a clue if it's an 71 block (below Alt. stand). But the engine is not in it's stock configuration for sure... And that Alt. backing plate doesn't look correct for the 38 amp. Alt. (just waking up and only one cup of coffee). Run your hand down the rear left side of the fan housing for the stand off oil cooler. If you feel the boxed projection, it has the dog house cooler(a 71 up-grade) That being said, I would doubt it is the correct(stock) engine for the 71 bus. A lot can happen to a bus in 50 years...
I do like the black door jams and beige exterior paint though... It's a pound puppy for sure.
I need another cup of coffee now. |
How’s the second cup of coffee working out Angus II
To clarify. Montreal Westy, You have a generator not an alternator. However it is clocked wrong. Meaning the generator connections on top should be at 2:00pm and not 11:00am. Try this link
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=697274&highlight=generator _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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Angus II Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2016 Posts: 707 Location: Mammoth Lakes Ca. 93546
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Hello,
Much better now, thank you. Good catch there Xevin....
We're lucky I'm not an air traffic controller or in charge of a some missile silo some where...
Yet, that isn't a 38 amp (Gen.) backing plate. And, a lot of non-stock funk going on in that engine compartment. The carb(s) linkage returns spring setup is a nice touch...and where is the hose for the break system?
Just saying it's a mystery bus engine. A lot of money will be spent getting it back to stock form, if that matters to him. It looks to have a bug exhaust from the side view picture. And, what is under that nice new shinny paint job?.
But, it's a 71 bus, best year to have. IMO
Good luck with it. |
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EDragnDean Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2005 Posts: 1148 Location: Vancouver, WA
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Montreal Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2021 Posts: 9 Location: Montreal Canada
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Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Thank you everyone for your help already! I did some digging in the papers we received with the Westy and found out the engine was replaced in 2002 and the note only states it was a 1600 cc engine.
I could not find any engine number under the mount for the generator (thanks for the correction) and I will definitely look into the mounting set up.
I just ordered some new spark plugs, wires, points, coil, and distributor rotor and cap. I want to make sure I am starting with a good ignition system. |
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Montreal Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2021 Posts: 9 Location: Montreal Canada
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Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Angus II wrote: |
Hello,
Much better now, thank you. Good catch there Xevin....
We're lucky I'm not an air traffic controller or in charge of a some missile silo some where...
Yet, that isn't a 38 amp (Gen.) backing plate. And, a lot of non-stock funk going on in that engine compartment. The carb(s) linkage returns spring setup is a nice touch...and where is the hose for the break system?
Just saying it's a mystery bus engine. A lot of money will be spent getting it back to stock form, if that matters to him. It looks to have a bug exhaust from the side view picture. And, what is under that nice new shinny paint job?.
But, it's a 71 bus, best year to have. IMO
Good luck with it. |
Thank you Angus II, I am not sure about getting it all back to stock but definitely want to get it running well and solid so we can start putting some miles on the road with the family. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22639 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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You need to vent the PcV gas somewhere , either into the air intake or go a catch can. Hold off on the distributor cap until you sort out which distributor you want to run. That isn’t a great one there _________________ .ssS! |
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Montreal Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2021 Posts: 9 Location: Montreal Canada
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Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Abscate wrote: |
You need to vent the PcV gas somewhere , either into the air intake or go a catch can. Hold off on the distributor cap until you sort out which distributor you want to run. That isn’t a great one there |
Thanks Abscate! On my list to upgrade the distributor in the future but for now will make the best of this one and I will get the PcV vented properly.
When we drove her the fist time it ran ok for a while but then lost power and started backfiring so want to go through everything step by step and learn along the way as well. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336
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Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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What is your ignition timing set at? The 10° ATDC mark that is painted on your pulley will not work with that distributor. You probably want to set your timing at 28-32° BTDC at 3800+ rpms to get the best performance.
Have you adjusted your valves? Pretty much a require procedure before hitting the road the first time and then every 3000 miles afterwards.
An engine that is backfiring needs work before it destroys itself. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22639 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 3:11 am Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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I badly miss your beautiful city and its wonderful restaurants. Bad food is not permitted in Montreal.
Will you run your Bus in winter? Those dual carbs do not have chokes, I believe, so winter or even cool fall starting might be hard _________________ .ssS! |
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thirtyseven Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2011 Posts: 46 Location: Messines, Qc
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 8:25 am Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Hi, that's one really nice bus you got there... Looks like it's got a Mouse-gray -split bus color- respray over the original red, not a bad idea IMO
As the others have already said, difficult to have a good idea of the actual motor without taking it out, removing heads and measure the actual bore (and stroke, while at it). Who knows how many engines this bus have had during its life, or how many time this very engine got rebuilt.
Without pulling the engine, adjusting the valves is required indeed, I'd also pull the carbs, order gasket kits, clean them good and blow compressed air. You might also check your float levels, jets size and emulsion tube (can cause crappy running).
Seems like you have a set of Weber ICT (or Empi knock-off), so checking the throttle play would be good also. They are known to develop play in the shaft, inducing vacuum leak. Could be rebushed, but few people do that, it's not worth the hassle unless you know someone.
The throttle linkage also, should be checked to make sure it operates as it should. Some wear-points there too. A lot of people praise the CSP bellcank linkage (will be installing one too) for ease of tuning and reliability.
Check this site, there's a lot of useful information about those carbs in a bus, as well as jets recommendations, and misc. : https://www.wayoutwestie.com/engine-tech/running-weber-icts-on-a-vw-aircooled-engine/
Other than that, I'd clean a bit the engine bay, replace every fuel hose and connections with the proper fuel-hose clamp (not the ''worm-type'' clamps like you have), just tidy the place so it's not discouraging when staring at the scene
Pulling the engine would allow to check the cooling tin, if you have a doghouse setup, and make sure your fan is clean of debris. Where are you located in Montreal by the way, do you have a garage or at least, access to some space? (Je ne t'ai pas demandé si tu parlais français d'ailleurs...)
If you don't know any VW mechanic yet, I'd recommend this guy: https://fr-ca.facebook.com/FFFabrication/
Fred at FF-Fabrication is a knowledgeable guy, with tons of experience. He moved from Montreal to the countryside (St Alexis, in the Laurentides) not long ago, but his shop is a great ressource. As every good shop, he's extremly busy but a good place to know.
Welcome here anyway, you'll find anything you may need on this site, it's a place of tremendous knowledge, and helping people! But more importantly, what we want and need are photos, a lot of them, of every corner of your bus... The more photos, the more help |
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Montreal Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2021 Posts: 9 Location: Montreal Canada
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Wildthings wrote: |
What is your ignition timing set at? The 10° ATDC mark that is painted on your pulley will not work with that distributor. You probably want to set your timing at 28-32° BTDC at 3800+ rpms to get the best performance.
Have you adjusted your valves? Pretty much a require procedure before hitting the road the first time and then every 3000 miles afterwards.
An engine that is backfiring needs work before it destroys itself. |
The proper timing seems to be an area of great discussion! The mark was present prior to me and this is exactly one of the reasons I wanted to figure out the engine model. Currently I have it set at 0 degrees and I ran it briefly and it started much better and seemed smoother, but as you mentioned, I want to go through many more things such as the valves before I run her a significant amount of time. |
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Montreal Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2021 Posts: 9 Location: Montreal Canada
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Abscate wrote: |
I badly miss your beautiful city and its wonderful restaurants. Bad food is not permitted in Montreal.
Will you run your Bus in winter? Those dual carbs do not have chokes, I believe, so winter or even cool fall starting might be hard |
The food choices are amazing indeed!!!
No plans on winter running at this time but you never know... I did start her up this early winter to move it for a photo op for our Christmas cards and she was a bit sluggish to start indeed. |
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Montreal Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2021 Posts: 9 Location: Montreal Canada
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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thirtyseven wrote: |
Hi, that's one really nice bus you got there... Looks like it's got a Mouse-gray -split bus color- respray over the original red, not a bad idea IMO
As the others have already said, difficult to have a good idea of the actual motor without taking it out, removing heads and measure the actual bore (and stroke, while at it). Who knows how many engines this bus have had during its life, or how many time this very engine got rebuilt.
Without pulling the engine, adjusting the valves is required indeed, I'd also pull the carbs, order gasket kits, clean them good and blow compressed air. You might also check your float levels, jets size and emulsion tube (can cause crappy running).
Seems like you have a set of Weber ICT (or Empi knock-off), so checking the throttle play would be good also. They are known to develop play in the shaft, inducing vacuum leak. Could be rebushed, but few people do that, it's not worth the hassle unless you know someone.
The throttle linkage also, should be checked to make sure it operates as it should. Some wear-points there too. A lot of people praise the CSP bellcank linkage (will be installing one too) for ease of tuning and reliability.
Check this site, there's a lot of useful information about those carbs in a bus, as well as jets recommendations, and misc. : https://www.wayoutwestie.com/engine-tech/running-weber-icts-on-a-vw-aircooled-engine/
Other than that, I'd clean a bit the engine bay, replace every fuel hose and connections with the proper fuel-hose clamp (not the ''worm-type'' clamps like you have), just tidy the place so it's not discouraging when staring at the scene
Pulling the engine would allow to check the cooling tin, if you have a doghouse setup, and make sure your fan is clean of debris. Where are you located in Montreal by the way, do you have a garage or at least, access to some space? (Je ne t'ai pas demandé si tu parlais français d'ailleurs...)
If you don't know any VW mechanic yet, I'd recommend this guy: https://fr-ca.facebook.com/FFFabrication/
Fred at FF-Fabrication is a knowledgeable guy, with tons of experience. He moved from Montreal to the countryside (St Alexis, in the Laurentides) not long ago, but his shop is a great ressource. As every good shop, he's extremly busy but a good place to know.
Welcome here anyway, you'll find anything you may need on this site, it's a place of tremendous knowledge, and helping people! But more importantly, what we want and need are photos, a lot of them, of every corner of your bus... The more photos, the more help |
Bonjour! Je apprendre le Francais Thank you for the info and I am already impressed with the depth of knowledge and everyone who has taken the time to respond to my post. I will certainly get some more photos up as the work progresses.
This is my first Westy and I am already learning a lot and my project list is getting bigger every day.
Thank you for the info on the garage and the link for the carbs. We do have a garage at our house and she is currently being well kept as we begin to nurse her back to health! My wife is very excited to start on the interior rehab and we have a lot of camping gear ready for when our Westy is fit for the road. |
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Montreal Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2021 Posts: 9 Location: Montreal Canada
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Montreal Westy wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
What is your ignition timing set at? The 10° ATDC mark that is painted on your pulley will not work with that distributor. You probably want to set your timing at 28-32° BTDC at 3800+ rpms to get the best performance.
Have you adjusted your valves? Pretty much a require procedure before hitting the road the first time and then every 3000 miles afterwards.
An engine that is backfiring needs work before it destroys itself. |
The proper timing seems to be an area of great discussion! The mark was present prior to me and this is exactly one of the reasons I wanted to figure out the engine model. Currently I have it set at 0 degrees and I ran it briefly and it started much better and seemed smoother, but as you mentioned, I want to go through many more things such as the valves before I run her a significant amount of time. |
You set your timing to mainly match your distributor and to a lesser extent your fuel system, cam, and compression. The engine code doesn't enter into this unless all the things just mentioned are the correct factory parts in like new condition. |
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thirtyseven Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2011 Posts: 46 Location: Messines, Qc
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 7:37 am Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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Good that you have a garage, I couldn't image fixing my bus when it was parked in the streets in Montreal! I had too though, on some occasions...
You might add to your list the purchase of a proper 034 distributor (there are good distributor rebuilders here, so you know you buy perfectly restored, original quality parts), to replace the 009 knock-off you seem to have. Your Weber carbs (if this is what you have) have a vacuum port, and your engine would benefit the right amount of advance from the proper distributor, before trying to mess with the timing.
Bus looks nice on those photos! |
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Montreal Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2021 Posts: 9 Location: Montreal Canada
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 7:59 am Post subject: Re: New Westy owner help with engine code/type |
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thirtyseven wrote: |
Good that you have a garage, I couldn't image fixing my bus when it was parked in the streets in Montreal! I had too though, on some occasions...
You might add to your list the purchase of a proper 034 distributor (there are good distributor rebuilders here, so you know you buy perfectly restored, original quality parts), to replace the 009 knock-off you seem to have. Your Weber carbs (if this is what you have) have a vacuum port, and your engine would benefit the right amount of advance from the proper distributor, before trying to mess with the timing.
Bus looks nice on those photos! |
It definitely is a knock off for sure. Made in Taiwan . And thank you for the advise on the carbs and I will verify the type and make of the carbs next. If they do have a vacuum port then it would be good to invest in a vacuum advance distributor? |
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