Vanagon Bell Housing

[snowsyncro]

@danfromsyr

I have enjoyed reading your posts about your mum's van; I really like that engine. I have three of those gas 2.5s here. Especially the story about you towing her halfway across the country, or was it the other way around? I forget.

[AndyBees]

I started with an OE Diesel Flywheel in my TDI install (clutch would slip)
Then I changed it for a G60 Flywheel from a 1997 Passat
Then I went to a DMF

Both the OE Diesel Flywheel and G60 had rattles at idle

The DMF has been awesome with respect to a quiet idle, smooth shifting, and virtually no resonance out on the road at any speed. In fact, after the DMF install I don't think about resonance anymore.

I sorta doubt a DMF will fit inside a SA bell housing.

Below, DMF on the left, G60 in the center and OE diesel on the right

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'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

[MarkWard]

The problem is in the Audi application, there was a nose mount to limit the belt side of the engine from moving up and down on accel and decel. Unlike a true inline engine, the torque is up and down not side to side. So, the vanagon transmission case is seeing loads it wasn't designed for. The original brace triangulated the bell housing to the case.

I had this problem with my TDI install, but added a torque mount after I had a friend following me. The engine was moving up and down at least an inch. My torque mount was fabricated from VW rabbit parts.

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[Yota-toy]

Now the real story comes out!!! I am very glad to read about the lack of the 'nose' bushing and the idea that the engine's position is far different from the original could likely be a large part of this problem.
I'm sure it won't be much fun to fab a mount for the front of the eng. in the vanagon engine bay but it will be done prior to any lengthy driving. Most likely even before I start it for the first time.
I wonder what that 'special' destructive rpm is for the I5. Mostly likely the best for torque so it's sitting there all the time! A cummins 6BT can rev up to 7k, but if it hangs at 4100 (specifically) than the engine does actually grenade. I've seen it live at a truck pull and the driver saw the revs hang for a second and tried to shift but too late:(, no amount of winnings will bring that eng. back. Story's like that and the sweet durable 47RE trans are the two biggest reasons my truck does not get abused!!!! It has a power box set at level two (not 5) for pulling hills, not 30k/lb sleds for a $150 purse.

This is all great info.

[?Waldo?]

[danfromsyr]

indeed even my I4s could benefit from the nose 'torque' mount.
I get a 'hop' at a given RPM & load.. it's funny it's actually more pronounced with a cold motor.. ie. taking off from my driveway and trying to maintain the ~30mph speed limit of my road. it'll hop the engine some..
my suspect is that the cold run Ign timing creates or compounds the issue.
by the end (1.5mi) of my road it's fine and won't do it easily.. well maybe if I'm lugging it asking for more while going up a given % hill grade @ a given mph.
ie. like a scenic Mtn road (Mount Greylock, MA) or such I can 'trigger' the engine hop..
had it in my 1.8L I4 and my 1.8T I4 too. which have had different engine cradles and mounts..

iirc, there's at least one 4cyl install who put the 'torque' snubber on, but I can't recall whom.

fun fact that in the rear engine inline configuration the engine is actually trying to torque downward. vs Upward in the forward facing longitudinal installations.
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[AndyBees]

[Yota-toy]

To anyone interested in this shaft from German Transaxle http://www.germantransaxle.com I was told by email that the shaft is no longer available (obsolete) and that the company has no leads on where to locate one.
Contacting Eurospec LA next.

[crazyvwvanman]

I think you have been led far astray.
AFAIK, the standard length transmission input shaft is typically used on 5 cyl conversions that use the South African bell housing.
I know both of my vans with 5 cyl conversions used the standard 298mm shaft.

I think the photo of the really long input shaft is for a Mexican 4 cyl bellhousing used on late bay window buses that used the inline 4 watercooled engine.

Mark

[danfromsyr]

indeed the mexican bellhousing is definitely deeper than any of the others.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=717904
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[Yota-toy]

"I know both of my vans with 5 cyl conversions used the standard 298mm shaft.
"
Can you confirm what clutch configuration you used? I am hoping to keep the flywheel audi if possible.
Thank you

Could anyone with this conversion share coolant plumbing photo's?

[crazyvwvanman]

Mine used Audi flywheels and clutch pressure plates.
One was a 240mm and the other a 228mm.
I think the 240 friction disk was special and the 228 was a Vanagon friction disc.
It has been a while.....

Mark

[danfromsyr]

fwiw I have the 2.5l EV 5cyl flywheel and clutch parts. but iirc and according to rock auto they're 228mm. which does mean you can use improved stage 1 or stage 2 clutch discs fairly easily. it's a heavy beast so probably alot of rotating mass like the diesel likes.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volkswagen,199...disc,10605

not sure if it's relevant but just adding to the 5cyl BH conversation details
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[Italjohn]

[AndyBees]

[?Waldo?]

Luk 17-050 is the kit I have gotten.

It fits the Inline-4 engines. The splined hole at the center of the disc is larger diameter than the stock Vanagon input shafts. The custom TDI Vanagon input shaft is available from various vendors.

The DMF will fit in the diesel Vanagon bell housing but requires some slight clearancing (basically around the boss of the clutch release shaft). The DMF will NOT fit with the Vanagon gas bell housing and will NOT fit with any engine to trans adapter plates currently available.

If the stock diesel Vanagon starter is used it will pinch the side of the DMF flywheel. A small amount of clearancing on the starter nose will fix it. It fits fine with the TDI starter+adapter.

[AndyBees]

The pics below reflect where I removed material from the Diesel Bell Housing for the DMF. Seems I did have to remove a smidge of material for the G60 flywheel.

The pic below reflects where the snout of the Diesel Starter needs material removed to avoid rubbing on the DMF outer surface as Waldo mentioned. This applies to the G60 solid mass flywheel as well.

Lastly, below is a pic of the Vanagon OE 228mm Sach clutch disc I was using with the DMF/Pressure Plate. As you can see, the OE disc is not robust enough for a TDI engine. This disc had less than 20k miles on it. Notice the cracks in the Disc.

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'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

[?Waldo?]

The castings may be different, but the two bell housings I have modified so far for the DMF only needed the material removed here:

[AndyBees]

Waldo, if you notice, the Bell Housing in my pic is bolted to the transmission. Two of the bolts are visible in one of the photo and one bolt in the other pic.

If I remember correctly, I installed the transmission and snugged the bolts, then rotated the engine with a tool. Anywhere the pressure plate rubbed leaving marks, I knocked off some material. Yes, it was a lot of work doing it that way. Seems I installed and removed the transmission several times to get it right.

But, I do admit it is very possible I hit a spot or two that wasn't necessary. However, as I recall, there were three tabs, maybe more, on the pressure plate I was using with the G60 Single Mass Flywheel. I had to knock those down with a hammer. So, it's possible they were hitting/scrubbing in places that pressure plate on the DMF never touched.

As for the aftermarket Pilot Shaft and Starter Adapter for the TDI starter, I've not been able to find them of late. The Diesel Starter will work just fine.
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'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

[?Waldo?]

I removed the bell housing from the trans as I had to install the TDI Vanagon input shaft anyway. Installing only the bell housing onto the engine for checking seems a lot easier than leaving the bell housing on the trans and bolting the engine and trans together.

Input shaft in stock at Brickwerks.

Starter adapter in stock at mybusparts.