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swsl
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Joined: February 20, 2017
Posts: 94
Location: New Mexico
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 Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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| CoastieLFS wrote: |
| Goal Zero make a vehicle integration kit for tying their lithium systems to the starter battery or the house battery. |
Yes, good to know for those who might choose that direction. Link seems to be out, but here's one: https://www.goalzero.com/product-features/yeti-vehicle-integration/?text=yeti
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swsl
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2017
Posts: 94
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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| Quote: |
| Any leads on getting cooler working, how to make sure it doesn’t drain main battery, and how to change the fuses greatly appreciated. |
There is a write-up posted somewhere on cleaning maintaining that drawer fridge- I never did it since I swapped in a chest cooler for the whole seat. But somebody will have that link.
On my 2002 generation weekender you access the house system fuses by opening the little door under the driver's seat. Flat blade screwdriver in the slot to release then tilt down. From there you can see and test the relay also. That might be out in your case and it could be replaced with OEM or there are many aftermarket options for "battery combiner" or Battery isolator that could be swapped in.
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Amkelly28
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Joined: March 10, 2018
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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| jjvincent wrote: |
The stock harness is fine if you are not going to use the battery that often and using a regular lead acid battery. The main issue is that you just can't get past the wire diameter when it comes to charging the battery. Plus, I know mine had a pretty good voltage drop from the main battery to the coach and then another voltage drop to the 12v cooler.
A few things, the coach battery would never be fully charged and the fridge shuts off too early (it shuts off at 11.5v). Thus, the reason why I rewired it with some old BMW battery cable, a battery isolator and rewired the 12v socket (I eliminated the goofy German plug and put in a regular lighter socket). Even that German plug had it's issues because it gets loose deep inside of it even if it feels like it clicks in.
I'll have to find the link but I spent last spring redoing the whole thing and even disassembling the 12v cooler (plus bypassing the low voltage shutoff). In the end, the cooler will run for 4 days straight and the delta compared to the outside temp was increased. That was good because you can shoehorn 23 beers into that cooler so I don't have to go on a 12 hour drinking binge just to get it all down before it goes warm then have three days of no beer and just camping. |
Looking for this link ^ so I can troubleshoot my cooler now.... |
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Amkelly28
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Joined: March 10, 2018
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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Thanks, I found the fuses up front.
Need to troubleshoot the cooler box and can’t find that thread.
Just replaced main battery and I cannot for the life of me figure why it seems to be already having a hard time starting and I drive it once a week. What in the world are all these wired connected to my main battery
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Joshwa
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Joined: November 18, 2015
Posts: 810
Location: North Seattle WA
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swsl
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2017
Posts: 94
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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| Amkelly28 wrote: |
What in the world are all these wired connected to my main battery
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Somebody installed a bunch of aftermarket stuff in there. I also see a little circuit breaker added on the firewall. Lights, power amp, who knows what's been added. Trace those extra wires down, I guess or disconnect one by one and see what doesn't come on. None of those colored wires are OEM unless they are Red or Black. You can tell which black (and colored) ones were added later- anything with the sorta funky crimp connectors.
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smores
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Joined: September 14, 2020
Posts: 91
Location: RNO
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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| swsl wrote: |
| Amkelly28 wrote: |
What in the world are all these wired connected to my main battery
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Somebody installed a bunch of aftermarket stuff in there. I also see a little circuit breaker added on the firewall. Lights, power amp, who knows what's been added. Trace those extra wires down, I guess or disconnect one by one and see what doesn't come on. None of those colored wires are OEM unless they are Red or Black. You can tell which black (and colored) ones were added later- anything with the sorta funky crimp connectors. |
Yeah, That's a lot of aftermarket BS going on in there. What's with the lone LED hanging out in there, there is a TON of extra wires that are clearly not factory. Those crimps aren't done properly either -- looks like someone did them with pliers.
Start disconnecting anything that doesn't look factory which is any of the things with the yellow crimp ring terminals, the LED, the bright red and bright yellow wires. |
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swsl
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Joined: February 20, 2017
Posts: 94
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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Plus those three wires that have crimped splices located towards the bottom front of the battery are suspect.
I would trace those ones rather than disconnect, just from their location and change in color, it's possible that they may be repaired/replaced control or sensor wires of some kind broken out from the harness, hard to tell, but not OEM.
It's not ideal to see all that but oh well. The breaker on the engine block is a sign of some intelligence in the added wiring. The loose green wire hovering above the positive terminal is not.
Main thing is that all this is more suspect for phantom battery drain than a bad relay under the seat. Actually, it may even be running to the house system. If it's carrying any amps then it's thin to the point of useless (or worse) wiring.
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Amkelly28
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Joined: March 10, 2018
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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[quote="swsl"]Plus those three wires that have crimped splices located towards the bottom front of the battery are suspect.
I would trace those ones rather than disconnect, just from their location and change in color, it's possible that they may be repaired/replaced control or sensor wires of some kind broken out from the harness, hard to tell, but not OEM.
It's not ideal to see all that but oh well. The breaker on the engine block is a sign of some intelligence in the added wiring. The loose green wire hovering above the positive terminal is not.
Ok yea I know that the green weird wire was for some lights last guy put in to deter mice I guess. The white one I could trace to the firewall but disconnected it and nothing looks different. There really isn’t any aftermarket stuff on the van, outside of a newer radio. Disconnected the white one and it works. I traced the other and they do seem to be actually necessary. Fingers crossed this helps me maintain this new battery. Driving it once a week for summer now.
Also the aux battery has about 10 volts maybe a dead cell. But if it works for now I will leave it. Cants get the seat out of the way enough really to remove it and probably dont wanna know what a new battery costs. I gotta get the fridge running and see if it’s worth it. Right now I ordered a new amazon fan to fix that up. |
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swsl
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Joined: February 20, 2017
Posts: 94
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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Glad you got the wires sorted. Or rather, ripped out of there! And you no longer have the phantom drain on your starter battery?
If you really wanna see under the seat, it's a ..5 mm hex? can't remember but there are four, one on each corner, front ones are a pain as the seat foam semi blocks access to the bolt.
Ball end hex and/or short hex bit on a flexible hex extension would be ideal.
If you ever get the money, GoWesty has been selling a lithium replacement. Usually out of stock.
But sounds like you are on the opposite end of things, just hoping to have something work for a bit without spending.
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patagrande
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Joined: October 27, 2020
Posts: 34
Location: CA
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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| swsl wrote: |
If you ever get the money, GoWesty has been selling a lithium replacement. Usually out of stock.
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The GW battery is in stock. I just ordered one.
There isn't too much about Weekenders and LiFePo4 batteries on the 'net, and GW hasn't been all that helpful answering install questions. Great business, but they seem more oriented towards Vanagons than EVs.
The alternator is putting out 14.3 volts at the aux battery when the engine is running, and as far as I can tell, the stock wiring is otherwise working as it should, and'd I'd like to be able to just drop the new battery in.
Much of the information I can find about alternator to LiFePo4 charging is about bigger battery banks (200+ ah) needing DC-DC chargers to avoid taxing the alternator, but there isn't much about smaller capacity replacements like the GW 50ah battery.
Has anyone just tried a plug and play approach with one of these? Or should I anticipate needing to redesign the alternator to aux battery charging system? |
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swsl
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Joined: February 20, 2017
Posts: 94
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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| patagrande wrote: |
The GW battery is in stock. I just ordered one...
The alternator is putting out 14.3 volts at the aux battery when the engine is running, and as far as I can tell, the stock wiring is otherwise working as it should, and'd I'd like to be able to just drop the new battery in.
Much of the information I can find about alternator to LiFePo4 charging is about bigger battery banks (200+ ah) needing DC-DC chargers to avoid taxing the alternator, but there isn't much about smaller capacity replacements like the GW 50ah battery. |
Great! I think you will be glad you did. That battery may outlast the van. I installed a 100 amp battle born lithium in mine under the seat and charge directly from the alternator without a DC to DC. Have used it extensively for four years. The MV does typically have a fairly high output alternator. There are three sizes of alternator and it might be any of them, though.
I did change out the relay for a Victron charge controller but the stock relay should do the job. Your voltage output is good for charging the GoWesty if it doesn't drop too much under load when charging.
I upgraded my wiring to the relay with heavier gauge (#4) both positive and negative and added a 12V 80 amp circuit breaker by the starter battery as a safety and a way to disconnect the two manually for various reasons. That's all a fairly cheap upgrade that you could do anytime, though sooner is better. Also upgrading the wire from the alternator to the battery is a good option whenever.
These minor improvements will allow you to get the best charge voltage to the lithium. I think that you will really enjoy having the power and quick charging of the lithium.
One thing about charging without a DC to DC I found is that the alternator is regulated for heat. As it gets hot, sitting in traffic or high heat conditions, usually at idle, it will be regulated down to protect it. Especially at lower speed. So I have seen that it drops the voltage and stops charging altogether at idle when warmed up. A cheap 12v voltage display wired into the battery will give you an idea how much you are charging.
Lithium is different from Lead Acid in that it will show closer to the actual battery voltage than the voltage coming to it. So, without getting into a true battery monitor (I have the Victron BMV-712) , a 12v meter in your cigarette lighter for watching the alternator output and a 12v off the lithium will give you a window into your lithium and your alternator in real time.
Many options from <$10 and up here: https://www.amazon.com/12-volt-battery-monitor/s?k=12+volt+battery+monitor
With that lithium battery you will have the option to put in a 12v compressor fridge at some point.
Here's the cheapest native 12V fridge I've seen that I would trust to be decently built:
https://www.acopower.com/products/hy-p15?variant=16364453986370
Their fridge range shows a few returns at the bottom of the page for great prices. https://www.acopower.com/collections/solar-freezer
There are many brands of 12V fridges to choose from. These are just the brand you may not otherwise see. And cheaper.
I've got one myself from Snowmaster that is much larger, more power hungry and cost nearly $1K ! Similar to an Engel.
I have mine placed as a bench for the table in place of the jump seat that has the drawer fridge.
I could go on even more! Plenty of upgrade options depending on how much you use it. Battery monitor/ solar charging/ inverter/ AC charger. but the battery itself is the key and you got it
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Steve in Colorado
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Joined: April 26, 2020
Posts: 22
Location: Boulder, Colorado
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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| Amkelly28 wrote: |
| Also the aux battery has about 10 volts maybe a dead cell. But if it works for now I will leave it. Cants get the seat out of the way enough really to remove it and probably dont wanna know what a new battery costs. I gotta get the fridge running and see if it’s worth it. Right now I ordered a new amazon fan to fix that up. |
Just for your future reference, here’s how you get the seat forward enough to remove the aux battery. Move it forward in the usual way as far as you can. Then find a small handle to the right of the drivers seat. That will allow you to move the seat farther forward. |
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patagrande
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Joined: October 27, 2020
Posts: 34
Location: CA
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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| swsl wrote: |
I did change out the relay for a Victron charge controller but the stock relay should do the job. Your voltage output is good for charging the GoWesty if it doesn't drop too much under load when charging.
I upgraded my wiring to the relay with heavier gauge (#4) both positive and negative and added a 12V 80 amp circuit breaker by the starter battery as a safety and a way to disconnect the two manually for various reasons. That's all a fairly cheap upgrade that you could do anytime, though sooner is better. Also upgrading the wire from the alternator to the battery is a good option whenever.
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Thank you very much for the insight. A couple of questions:
1) Is the relay the small cube under the driver's seat in front of the aux battery? What Victron unit did you replace the stock relay with?
2) Any tricks to running heavier wire from the aux battery to the engine bay? Or am I pulling up carpet?
I did call Battleborn, and they said that their 100ah unit won't overly tax the alternator unless a few are wired into a larger bank. Makes sense to buy a battery from the people who design and can offer that kind of insight... |
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swsl
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Joined: February 20, 2017
Posts: 94
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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Hi. Yes the little black cube is the relay. The Victron device I have is a cyrix li charge if I remember right. They have two types.
If you are gonna buy any Victron, I recommend Bay Marine online based out of San Diego...they are very helpful to answer questions and best prices.
But the black cube may be fine. If you are gonna upgrade anything else, Id recommend spending on a battery monitor first. The victron BMV 700 series is great and their bluetooth app allows you to see and manage from your phone.
It could be wired to control your black cube relay as well, but you are probably fine using the stock, typical approach that closes the relay with the ignition on/off.
For upgraded wiring, there is a hole in the floor pan under the seat in the battery & relay area where existing wires enter. I mounted a bussman dc breaker on the firewall as already mentioned, then ran that #4 positive (also a ground) down from there and rearwards to enter at the existing hole. Not hard. Everything inside flex harness conduit and zip tied to avoid heat or abrasion.
Replacement battery cables at autoparts stores are a good source.
Battleborn is a fantastic company with top products that are over specced to give all its rated amps without stressing the cells., thus offering longest life. But so pricey I didn't imagine you'd be interested. The westy is likely just good enough but still a fine upgrade for most users and so affordable. You could always add a second one if two fit
it. I had to turn the battleborn 100 amp on its side to fit it in. No prob doing that with lithium.
The charge/discharge profile of the LFE battery will really allow you to get more from it with less finicky issues.
If you ever add solar, the advantages will serve you there also.
I posted some pics of my install on cavevans and will look for the link. Lotta fun! I
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swsl
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Amkelly28
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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| swsl wrote: |
| Glad you got the wires sorted. Or rather, ripped out of there! And you no longer have the phantom drain on your starter battery? |
I Find this forum so hard to reply on.
Anyway I disconnected the white wires and I think the only thing I noticed was my coolant light not blinking and light doesn’t go on when I switch on my headlights. Still sounds a little rough on start up, so mystery drain I think.
Got new fan for my cooler going to put it back together and see if it runs and does any cooling as mostly original design. |
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swsl
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Posts: 94
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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| Amkelly28 wrote: |
I Find this forum so hard to reply on.
Anyway I disconnected the white wires and I think the only thing I noticed was my coolant light not blinking and light doesn’t go on when I switch on my headlights. Still sounds a little rough on start up, so mystery drain I think.
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I have a hard time getting the quotes to work.
I'm not sure what you mean if you disconnected and your coolant light is not blinking. You mean upon startup it's not showing function? Or while running. I would want that sensor to work if possible, it's a nice safety feature. If there's any doubt, siphon out half of your coolant resevoir and see if you get a warning beep.
Light doesn't go on? Again, not clear but your headlights fail ? Seems like you are saying it's no biggie, so I wonder what that means.
Still sounds rough? Meaning the starter is weak? Or the engine sounds rough?
Each symptom is hard to sort out with the description. Please elaborate or clarify if you want help, ok?
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Endopotential
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Location: Pacifica, California
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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In case anyone is still following this thread, I could never get my '02 cooler to achieve much coldness. What finally did the trick was bypassing the LVD by connecting the two red wires together, as mentioned above.
Now it keeps my test beer drinkably cool.
BTW what's the purpose of the fan inside the box? There's no connection to outside air, so I suppose it's just to circulate air within what is a rather tiny compartment? |
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nbrass
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Weekender Auxiliary Battery Upgrade |
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| Endopotential wrote: |
In case anyone is still following this thread, I could never get my '02 cooler to achieve much coldness. What finally did the trick was bypassing the LVD by connecting the two red wires together, as mentioned above.
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Can you post a photo of how you connected the 2 red wires to bypass the LVD? Did you just pull them out of the black box by the fuse, cut off the connectors, strip and wirenut them together? |
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