| Would you be interested in this product if it were available? |
| Yes |
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33% |
[ 13 ] |
| No |
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53% |
[ 21 ] |
| Maybe |
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12% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 39 |
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| Author |
Message |
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22633
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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 Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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Remember to price your pilots at 150% of target volume price , not 50%
This mistake has been made so many times I’m almost too embarrassed to charge $650 an hour to tell companies this. Almost.
_________________
.ssS! |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:45 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| Abscate wrote: |
Remember to price your pilots at 150% of target volume price , not 50%
This mistake has been made so many times I’m almost too embarrassed to charge $650 an hour to tell companies this. Almost. |
I am surprised that you are not intensely embarrassed to charge US$650 per hour to tell them anything; even US$65 per hour might be pushing the limits of endurance!
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:46 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| naskeet wrote: |
| I would NOT be surprised if having an ODOMETER to record the mileage and/or kilometreage of the vehicle is a legal requirement and it is certainly useful to determine when one's next service is due unless one also retro-fits an engine-hour meter, that in some ways might be even more useful. |
I recall an article that I photocopied from Practical Boat Owner magazine at the local public library in mid-2011, which featured an analogue tachometer, incorporating a digital engine-hour meter, uses with a Volvo Penta MD22 marine engine, whose engine-hour meter module was faulty.
Stu Davies, “Keeping better track of time”, Practical Boat Owner, Issue 536, July 2011, Pages 72~73.
The sub-heading stated:
“Replacing a faulty LCD engine hour meter is a straightforward job that shouldn’t take long if you know the basics”
After researching the problem and possible solutions, the author decided to replace the faulty LCD engine hour meter himself; sourcing a 701-Series, 5 mm module from Curtis Instruments of Northampton, England, which could be modified to fit in his tachometer and is said to work very simply.
www.curtisinstruments.com
https://www.curtisinstruments.com/products/hour-meters/
https://www.curtisinstruments.com/products/datasheets/700Modules_datasheet_en.pdf
https://www.curtisinstruments.com/products/cad/700.zip
When connected to a 12V power supply, it starts counting the hours in digital-increments of 0•1 hours. The size of the tachometer is uncertain, but it appears to be of either 52 mm or 80 mm diameter. At some time prior to July 2011, the module cost £18 including postage within the United Kingdom.
How many digits the new replacement LCD engine hour meter could display, was not stated, but the total hour-count of 1,075•3 shown at the time (adjusted to include the engine’s total hour-count before the original defunct LCD engine hour meter was replaced), and the total size of the display, suggest that at least 999,999•9 hours (i.e. virtually 1 million hours) could be recorded, and possibly as much as 9,999,999•9 hours (i.e. virtually 10 million hours).
Even at a VERY low average speed of 10 mph (the average speed of motor vehicles driven in London, England), 1 million engine hours corresponds to 10 million miles and I have yet to learn of any 1968~79 VW Type 2 which have covered as much as 2 million miles, so an engine-hour meter like this should be more than adequate!
I thought at the time, that such an instrument might be quite useful in the VW Type 2, especially considering that engine-service intervals are more usefully correlated with an engine’s operational hours rather than the distance the vehicle has been driven. This is the norm for plant machinery and aircraft, plus probably ships as well.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| naskeet wrote: |
| I would NOT be surprised if having an ODOMETER to record the mileage and/or kilometreage of the vehicle is a legal requirement and it is certainly useful to determine when one's next service is due unless one also retro-fits an engine-hour meter, that in some ways might be even more useful. |
| naskeet wrote: |
I recall an article that I photocopied from Practical Boat Owner magazine at the local public library in mid-2011, which featured an analogue tachometer, incorporating a digital engine-hour meter, used with a Volvo Penta MD22 marine engine, whose engine-hour meter module was faulty.
Stu Davies, “Keeping better track of time”, Practical Boat Owner, Issue 536, July 2011, Pages 72~73. |
Whilst I was trawling through my collection of photocopied articles from Practical Boat Owner magazine, I came across another dating from early 2008, which might be relevant to this topic thread:
Mike Coates, “Making an instrument pod in glassfibre”, Practical Boat Owner, Issue 493, January 2008, Pages 82~83.
When Mike Coates sought to update the instrument panel on his boat, he could not find any readymade instrument pods that were compatible with his existing stainless-steel, binnacle-support hoop, so he decided to design and fabricate his own from GRP (i.e. glass-fibre reinforced plastic | laid-up glass-fibre strand mat and polyester resin), Perspex (i.e. ICI branded acrylic sheet) and polypropylene sheet.
The material costs, including that of the mould, for making the GRP pod, was about £65. Of this, the Perspex and polypropylene sheet accounted for £38.
Over the years, I have found many technical articles and product reviews in Practical Boat Owner magazine, that are relevant to both pleasure boats and the 1968~79 VW Type 2s; especially those that have been converted into motor-caravans, or shall at some time in the future. To buy articles about various topics from past issues of Practical Boat Owner magazine, visit the following website and click-on “Find articles”.
www.pbo.co.uk
In the past, I have moulded a few one-off items, from laid-up glass-fibre strand mat and polyester resin, for the 1973 VW Type 2, 1974 Triumph Toledo and around the home; including a pair of specially-shaped, Y-junction connectors, to incorporate a 1972~79 VW 17/18/2000 Type 2, engine-compartment-ceiling-mounted, electric heater-booster fan, into the heating & demisting system of my 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 with VW 1600 Type 1 style air-cooled engine.
Home-made GRP Y-junction adapters, to incorporate 1972~79 VW 17/18/2000 Type 2, engine-compartment-ceiling-mounted, electric heater-booster fan, into the heating & demisting system of my 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 with VW 1600 Type 1 style air-cooled engine
I shall not be using this technique for my custom-made, substitute instrument panel of the style I want, because it will be simpler and cheaper to fabricate it from a 20 mm thick sheet of high-quality oak-faced plywood, but producing multiple, substitute, instrument binnacles, of similar style to the original factory-fitted ones, such as "andrig's" proposes, might be simpler and cheaper this way, rather than injection-moulding or 3D printing; requiring no expensive specialised tools.
As you might be aware, there is or at least there was in November 2013, an organisation called the Rivierra Roof Company, in Great Britain who offered custom-made, substitute 1968~79 VW Type 2 dashboards, in at least two different styles, fabricated using the process of laid-up glass-fibre strand mat and polyester resin.
www.riveria-roof-company.co.uk
https://www.campervanlife.com/forums/topic/riviera-roof-company/
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net
Last edited by NASkeet on Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| naskeet wrote: |
My British-specification, 1973 model-year, black-plastic instrument binnacle, features four moulded knock-out sections for the absent brake-circuit failure warning light, a warning-light unit of the same shape and two circular accessory warning-light units.
If prospective purchasers of your custom-made substitute instrument binnacle, wished or were required to retro-fit, additional warning or tell-tale lights (e.g. trailer direction-indicator repeater tell-tale lamp), how could they be incorporated into the instrument binnacle and/or the Speedhut instruments? |
In 1988/89 I cut out the two large D-shaped, moulded knock-out sections, immediately adjacent to the heating & ventilation control-lever slots and fuel-gauge & warning-light cluster, on the left-hand-side, at the top and bottom of my British-specification, right-hand-drive, 1973 model-year, black-plastic instrument binnacle.
Apart from the late-model, special 1•2 tonne payload models, British specification, 1971~79 VW 1600 Type 2s with front disc brakes, were not factory-fitted with vacuum brake servo assistance.
When during the winter of 1988/89, I upgraded the braking system of my 1973 model-year, VW 1600 Type 2, by retro-fitting a matched pair of ATE remote-acting vacuum brake servo units, I also overhauled the rest of the hydraulic braking system (including the substitution of corrosion-resistant Kunifer-10 copper-nickel alloy brake pipe) and substituted two new 3-terminal brake-light switches in the master cylinder.
In the bottom D-shaped hole in the instrument binnacle, I retro-fitted a new brake-circuit failure warning light unit (VW Part No. 113 919 233 B), to operate in conjunction with the 3-terminal brake-light switches (VW Part No. 113 945 515 G) I had then recently substituted.
In the top D-shaped hole in the instrument binnacle, I fitted a D-shaped black-plastic blanking plug (has an embossed VW emblem but no visible part number), of exactly the right shape and size, which I had salvaged from another model of air-cooled VW at the local car-breaker’s yard, but whether from a VW Type 1, Type 3 or Type 4, I cannot recall.
For what this top D-shaped hole might be used I don’t know, but there might have been an automatic-transmission, oil-overheating warning light unit or other warning light unit of this shape.
Beetle - Late Model/Super > "Stick-shift" transmission-oil-temp. warning-light
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=228775
In recent years, I had considered whether it might be possible to use a second brake-circuit failure warning light unit (with the brake-symbol removed) in this top D-shaped hole, for use with an engine-detonation warning device, which would be appropriate with significantly modified / upgraded engines or where there might be a danger of using low-octane petrol (i.e. gasoline in USA parlance).
Engine detonation, knock, spark-knock, pinking or pinging can be very destructive, very quickly, as I know from my reading of at least two accounts of separate overland expeditions in Africa and South America, and which could easily have happened to me during my sojourns into Eastern Europe, behind the “Iron Curtain” during the 1980s, where I think citizens of the USA were restricted from travelling.
Forum Index > Performance / Engines / Transmissions > Engine-knock warning and/or avoidance devices
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=280438
Bay Window Bus > Detection & avoidance of detonation and/or pre-ignition
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=280812
‘How To' & 'Handy Hints' > VW flat-four engine, knock-warning device
http://forums.kombiclub.com/showthread.php?t=20804
The two smaller, circular, moulded knock-out sections, of up to 16 mm diameter, located top & bottom, between the speedometer and the vacant time-clock aperture, towards the right-hand side of the right-hand-drive instrument binnacle, are suitable for a variety of after-market, accessory warning-light or tell-tale-light units, of which I retro-fitted two such units that I salvaged from the local car breaker’s yard.
Before I later decided to fabricate my own custom-made, substitute instrument panel for a VW Beetle speedometer & VDO Cockpit gauges, my intended purposes for these accessory warning-light or tell-tale-light units, was in relation to my brake lights and trailer direction-indicator lights.
When slowing down a 1968~79 VW Type 2 using solely engine-braking, as is my normal practice, by simply easing-off the accelerator pedal, the brake lights do not illuminate, to warn following drivers (some of whom might be engrossed in their mobile telephones, modern infotainment systems or simply having a snooze!) that I am slowing down.
Unlike my Triumph Toledo, in which I can hear the conventional brake-light, momentary pin-switch click-on, when lightly depressing the brake pedal without activating the brakes, one has no direct indication in the 1968~79 VW Type 2 of when the brake lights are operating. How much hydraulic pressure or brake-pedal pressure needs to be generated, in order to activate the VW Type 2’s brake-light switches, I don’t know!?!
Hence, I decided to install a manually operated momentary switch, which I could use to activate the brake lights, when slowing down using engine-braking, without needing to depress the brake pedal. The instrument-panel-mounted tell-tale light confirms that the brake lights are being illuminated.
As previously mentioned, one is required by British motoring law, to have a tell-tale cum warning light, that shows when a trailer’s direction-indicator lamps are operating or whether they are failing to operate when those of the towing vehicle are operating.
It might also be possible to fit after-market, accessory warning-light or tell-tale-light units, located top & bottom, between the speedometer and the fuel gauge & warning-light cluster, towards the left-hand side of the right-hand-drive instrument binnacle.
Whether or not it would be practical to also fit any after-market, accessory warning-light or tell-tale-light units, between the two vertical slots for the heating & ventilation control levers, I don’t know, but one would need to be careful that any associated wiring didn’t get fouled by the control levers. There is certainly enough space to accommodate about four such warning-light or tell-tale-light units.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net
Last edited by NASkeet on Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| naskeet wrote: |
| I would NOT be surprised if having an ODOMETER to record the mileage and/or kilometreage of the vehicle is a legal requirement and it is certainly useful to determine when one's next service is due unless one also retro-fits an engine-hour meter, that in some ways might be even more useful. |
One of the important uses of an odometer and/or trip-meter that I forgot to mention, is that of monitoring one’s fuel-consumption rate, in either miles per US gallon, miles per Imperial gallon (i.e. the proper variety!), kilometres per litre, litres per 100 kilometres (as quoted by the Volkswagen factory in the August 1972, English edition, VW Type 2 owners’ handbook), litres per Swedish-mile (i.e. 10 kilometres) or otherwise.
In addition to reflecting one’s driving style and operating conditions, regular monitoring of fuel-consumption rate, also gives an indication of the health of the engine and its auxiliary systems, such as the ignition system, fuel system and air-filtration system, which require periodic maintenance and might benefit from intervention before the next service is due.
During our 1988 summer tour of the Normandy & Brittany regions of France, I noticed that the engine seemed to be less responsive than normal. Fuel economy was noticeably less than 24 MPG (habitually reviewed at all fuel tank top-ups) as compared with the usual 25 ± ½ MPG. I also observed that the inside surfaces, of our exhaust tail pipes, were becoming rather sooted, which was unusual. Normally, the exhaust tail pipes showed medium grey deposits, in common with the spark plugs.
As a matter of routine, I checked the static ignition timing, which I found to be retarded by several degrees from its normal setting. Upon further investigation, I discovered that the points gap had closed up to almost zero, which seemed strange, because nothing was loose and I had serviced the ignition system just before our holiday. Puzzled by this, I simply reset the points’ gap, with the aid of the manually cranked starting handle (a DIY upgrade retro-fitted in 1989) and readjusted the ignition timing.
The gap dimension wasn't critical, because the Microdynamics Formula 1, FCD (i.e. frequency controlled dwell) electronic ignition system, merely used the points' opening as a trigger, so the points' gap didn't influence the dwell angle and hence the energy stored by the ignition coil. Over the next few days, the soot in the exhaust pipe hadn't dispersed and there was no improvement in the fuel consumption, so I again checked the points' gap and static ignition timing, which were found to have altered once more.
I postulated that the plastic cam-follower, was suffering accelerated wear, for some reason, but it was impractical to investigate further, until we returned home. In the meantime, I resorted to resetting the points and readjusting the ignition timing, on a daily basis. At this juncture, one might have cursed the retention of the contact breaker points, but the then available, after market triggering systems, introduce their own problems, so I stand by my earlier decision.
When we got home, I removed the ignition distributor and inspected the four-lobed cam, which was no longer completely smooth. This was remedied by first removing the worst of the rough spots, using a fine needle-file and then polishing the cam, with progressively finer grades of 'wet & dry' abrasive paper; starting with 300 grit and finally finishing off with 800 grit.
Being uncertain about whether the cam lobes had retained their profile, I made an additional ignition-timing mark, on the opposite side of the crankshaft pulley (i.e. equidistant around the circumference, in either direction), so that I could check the individual ignition timing, of each of the four cylinders.
These were found to be identical (No. 3 cylinder, is not retarded by 3°, relative to the others, on AD series and later 1600 engines), to within an acceptable ±1° wear tolerance. After this, I ensured that the cam was lightly greased, at regular intervals (about every 1,000 miles) and there were no further problems with accelerated cam-follower wear, but I still wonder what caused the distributor cam to become roughened.
As a reasonably competent DIY mechanic by the late-1980s, I was easily able to assess and rectify these problems using my touring emergency tool kit. Had the vehicle been fitted with an inlet-manifold vacuum gauge at the time, the vacuum reading would probably have alerted me to the retarded ignition timing much sooner.
For this reason and the other useful diagnostic & monitoring functions of an inlet-manifold vacuum gauge, I determined that I would fit one to both the 1973 VW Type 2 and 1974 Triumph Toledo as part of my next comprehensive instrumentation upgrade, when the opportunity presented.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net
Last edited by NASkeet on Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| andrig's wrote: |
I forgot to directly reply to your idea on the 3 or 4 of the smaller gauges on the right.
That is doable with the space that is there, although I would have to experiment in my 3D model to be sure.
The aesthetics would still be odd if you ask me. Plus, it's a lot more complicated to reproduce the original cluster for the original gauges than an entirely new panel that only supports modern gauges. It's doable, but would take a lot more effort, and developing a lot more parts. It would be quite expensive, because you have to create the polycarbonate lenses that are in the gauge cluster, plus the mechanism to hold them in place.
VW used some stamped steel rings that twisted into place under some plastic parts of the cluster to retain them. I would probably have to come up with an alternative, as the tooling for stamped steel parts is expensive, just like the molds for injection molding something. I think the upfront costs would end up being so large, that it wouldn't be worth it anymore.
The thing that I have learned in this business, where manufacturing is concerned, is that VW did a lot of things that are very hard to reproduce, unless you can sell tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of them.
So, the design approach I'm taking is making something that is much simpler to manufacture, and won't require near as much upfront tooling cost. An injection mold for this stuff will still be very expensive, but I am investigating other options that might be cheaper. |
I would have thought that the diverse variety of modern, late-20th-Century and early-21st-Century adhesives & sealants would greatly simplify the process of attaching polycarbonate lenses to the reverse side of the instrument cluster. This would certainly avoid the need to incorporate pressed metal components.
It’s not unusual to have two vertically-aligned 52 mm gauges beside a 100 mm instrument. Many factory-stock instrument panels, in various vehicle marques, use a combination of different diameter gauges and/or instrument clusters. The use of 100 mm or 80 mm diameter units, in combination with 60 mm and/or 52 mm diameter units in a variety of configurations is quite common.
For example, the factory-stock Triumph Dolomite HL dashboard and associated instrument panel, that in 1984 I substituted into my Triumph Toledo, incorporated: a 100 mm speedometer, a 100 mm engine-tachometer, three 52 mm gauges, a 60 mm 8-segment warning-light cluster and a 60 mm clock, which looked quite elegant. Slightly different layouts with a similar variety of instruments, were used in other Triumph models such as the Triumph Stag and Triumph 2000/2500.
| naskeet wrote: |
This and other mock-ups I’ve tried, suggest that one could fit into a substitute instrument panel, a 100 mm diameter speedometer, and two after-market 100 mm diameter instrument housings, incorporating either three or four gauges with warning lights (if they were made), instead of the two 80 mm diameter instrument housings you propose, incorporating just two gauges.
I have reason to believe they are available from North Hollywood Speedo for the Porsche 911 & 912 and VW-Porsche 914. It might also be worth looking at a VDO Combi gauge, which is a single large-diameter housing incorporating four separate gauges, of which I have seen one featured, with gauges for fuel-level, voltage, oil-temperature & oil-pressure, but other combinations might also be available.
North Hollywood Speedo
https://www.nhspeedometer.com/
https://www.nhspeedometer.com/contactus
VDO Combi Gauges
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=vdo+combi+gau...BasicHover
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&a...ajaxhist=0
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&a...amp;sim=11
Many British & European cars of 1960s and 1970s vintage have 100 mm or 4 inch diameter instrument housings incorporating two or three gauges, including those found in the FWD Triumph 1300, FWD & RWD Triumph 1500 and RWD Triumph 2000. I have a 100 mm diameter Smith’s triple-gauge unit (fuel-level, water-temperature & ammeter) from a FWD Triumph 1300, that is of the same style as the original factory-fitted instruments in my 1974 Triumph 1300 Toledo, all of which will go in my substitute instrument panel having a speedometer, tachometer, seven gauges & warning-light cluster.
I suspect that North Hollywood Speedo, New Vintage and other instrumentation suppliers in the USA and elsewhere, also offer custom features for gauge faces, pointers & bezels; offering gauges in a variety of OEM styles for various vehicle models.
This being the case, one could probably also commission various types of exotic supplementary gauges to complement the existing factory-fitted 1968~79 VW Type 2 instruments or even the already quite extensive series of VDO Cockpit gauges. For example, people like me might desire matching VDO-Cockpit-style gauges for remote-shunt ammeter, fuel-air ratio, atmospheric pressure / altitude, gyro-compass (as used in WW2 German battle tanks) and pitch & roll angles, that have yet to be offered by VDO!?! |
If one particularly wants to retain an instrument-binnacle appearance that is close to factory-stock, then I still think that having three apertures of 100 mm diameter or larger (maybe as much as 110 mm), would be preferable to having a single central aperture of 100 mm diameter and two apertures of 80 mm diameter on either side.
100 mm = 1•25 x 80 mm, so the circular area of 100 mm diameter will be 1•25² = 1•5625 times larger than that of the 80 mm diameter. 110 mm = 1•375 x 80 mm, so the circular area of 110 mm diameter will be 1•375² = 1•8906 times larger than that of the 80 mm diameter.
Having an instrument-aperture that is of either 1•56 or 1•89 times larger area, should readily allow one to create instrument-housings easily accommodating three or even four gauges. This would be particularly appropriate for 1968~79 VW Type 2 padded-dashboards of North American specification, which are less readily modified to neatly retro-fit a supplementary six-gauge instrument panel in the centre of the dashboard, where a radio would typically be fitted.
Sweden, having been a left-hand-drive country since they swopped over from right-hand-drive in 1967, specified the padded dashboard for the 1968~79 VW Type 2 at some stage. In other left-hand-drive countries, the padded dashboard was available as a factory-fitted, extra-cost option, but it was not available for right-hand-drive countries such as Great Britain, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Japan, Thailand and most British Commonwealth nations.
The following pictures illustrate one style of custom multi-gauge combinations that were available in November 2013 for Porsche cars, from North Hollywood Speedo, plus one example of a VDO Combi gauge that was available in December 2013 and a Faria Beede combination gauge currently available from ASAP Supplies. I envisage that other styles and gauge functions would also be feasible!
North Hollywood Speedo combination gauge units
VDO Combi gauge (courtesy of Don’s Sport Vehicle Sales aka e-gauges.com | bankruptcy sale on Tuesday, 22nd January 2019)
In addition to the four gauge-functions, the VDO Combi gauge design also seems to incorporate four warning-light functions, so it illustrates what can readily be done.
New Vintage USA gauges, including a quad gauge
Faria Beede combination quad gauge
https://fariabeede.com/2-pages/prod_display.php?calledGauge=1_multi
For example, one might potentially have three-gauge combinations as follows, with warning lights as appropriate:
• Cylinder-head temperature, oil temperature and oil pressure
• Speedometer with odometer & engine-tachometer
• Fuel-level, voltmeter & ammeter
Or even four-gauge combinations as follows, with warning lights as appropriate:
• Cylinder-head temperature, exhaust-gas temperature, inlet-manifold vacuum & air/fuel ratio
• Speedometer with odometer, fuel-level & engine-tachometer
• Voltmeter, ammeter, oil temperature & oil pressure
The following pictures illustrate the two styles of custom-made GRP substitute dashboard, that were available for the 1968~79 VW Type 2 from the Riviera Roof Company in Great Britain.
Personally, I don’t particularly like the designs of either of these two substitute dashboards, but they do serve to illustrate how one can radically change dashboard design and instrument layouts to serve individual preferences, using the relatively simple process of laid-up glass-fibre strand mat and polyester resin.
Making suitable moulds is also relatively cheap and straightforward, using discarded excess timber, plywood, plastic foam, plaster-of-Paris, wire mesh, glass-fibre matting or other materials. I never cease to be amazed at the variety and quality of unused raw materials or recyclable & adaptable components, which people discard in waste skips (i.e. dumpsters in USA parlance). Other people’s discarded junk, has long been a treasure trove that I have been able to reuse for a variety of household and automotive projects, at little or no cost.
The only thing which needs to be standardised, is the profile of the dashboard where it attaches to the mounting brackets below the front windscreen, the front door-pillars (i.e. A-pillars), steering column and hand-brake unit. Consideration also needs to be given to how the heating & ventilation system will be incorporated. Virtually all other aspects of the design can be customised.
My own dashboard-design preference, would retain the feature of having separate removable instrument panels, which would simplify maintenance and facilitate any future instrumentation revisions and/or upgrades without having to replace the dashboard.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| naskeet wrote: |
There is a 100 mm diameter, VDO Cockpit International, dual-scale 0~85 mph & 0~130 km/h speedometer, that would be much more appropriate for the 1968~79 VW Type 2s and VDO Cockpit 0~6000 rpm tachometers are also available.
https://www.vdo-instruments.com/instruments/by-series/cockpit-international/speedometer.html
In principle, there would be sufficient space in a substitute instrument panel, for a central 100 mm diameter, VDO Cockpit International, 0~85 mph speedometer and four 52 mm diameter, VDO Cockpit gauges on either side. One could also have a matching supplementary instrument panel, with up to six 52 mm diameter, VDO Cockpit gauges in the dashboard centre, where a radio would normally be located. The radio / cassette-player could be mounted under the dashboard, between the hand-brake lever and the steering column, where it is easier to reach.
VDO 85 mph & 135 km/h speedometer
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I recently discovered that the host of e-gauges.com filed for bankruptcy some time ago, so I don’t yet know whether there are any other sources in North America, of the VDO Cockpit International, dual-scale, 85 mph & 135 km/h speedometer, but whilst recently checking the on-line catalogue of the VDO concessionary in the Czech Republic (i.e. eastern Europe), I discovered that this type of speedometer in both 80 mm and 100 mm diameter sizes, is still listed.
https://www.mechanikadc.cz/katalogy-vdo/
https://www.mechanikadc.cz/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/19815_Data-sheets-cockpit-international1.pdf
0~85 mph MPH, 0~135 km/h Doppelskala / Dual scale, 100 mm diameter ● 12-24V, 12V Beleuchtung / Illumination, 437-055-005C
0~85 mph MPH, 0~135 km/h Doppelskala / Dual scale, 80 mm diameter ● 12-24V, 12V Beleuchtung / Illumination 437-035-014C
| andrig's wrote: |
| I believe Speedhut would allow me to do more with colors between the tick marks, as I did on the fuel gauge. It's an interesting option that I can explore. |
| naskeet wrote: |
I certainly think this would be of benefit to many drivers, who have yet to develop an intuitive sense of what gauge readings might be considered optimal, acceptable or outside the acceptable range. In a World where a large proportion of drivers get confused about the meanings of even the most basic, common warning-light functions, I would regard this as almost essential. Different colour zones for the tachometer are also helpful, as found on the optional, factory-fitted tachometers for the 1983~90 VW Transporter T3, featured in my 1987 brochure.
British 1987 VW Vanagon Transporter / Caravelle Brochure
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/1987_transporter.php
Optional extras for the 1987 Transporter & Caravelle, including a colour-zoned tachometer with integral gauges for fuel level and coolant temperature
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A factory-fitted engine tachometer for the VW LT with diesel engine (picture attributed to Pawel in Poland, known as “YOGIVW” on The Samba forum)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=717247
Although the RPM scale on the tachometer only goes as far as circa 4500 rpm, as is typical for commercial-vehicle diesel engines, the interesting things to note are the coloured segments, indicating ideal and less-than-ideal engine operating speeds.
This is fairly typical of tachometers used on commercial vehicles and ships, where maximising engine life and fuel economy are important considerations. If wishing to maximise long-duration cruising speed, whilst maintaining reasonable fuel economy and engine life, one would operate the engine at “the top of the green”.
| naskeet wrote: |
If one particularly wants to retain an instrument-binnacle appearance that is close to factory-stock, then I still think that having three apertures of 100 mm diameter or larger (maybe as much as 110 mm), would be preferable to having a single central aperture of 100 mm diameter and two apertures of 80 mm diameter on either side.
100 mm = 1•25 x 80 mm, so the circular area of 100 mm diameter will be 1•25² = 1•5625 times larger than that of the 80 mm diameter. 110 mm = 1•375 x 80 mm, so the circular area of 110 mm diameter will be 1•375² = 1•8906 times larger than that of the 80 mm diameter. |
Recalling the earlier reference to the use of a 4½ inch diameter Speedhut speedometer in a 1968~79 VW Type 2, one could reasonably squeeze three 4½ inch (i.e. 114•3 mm) diameter instrument apertures into a substitute instrument binnacle.
114•3 mm = 1•42875 x 80 mm, so the circular area of 114•3 mm diameter will be 1•42875² = 2•041 times larger than that of the 80 mm diameter; giving even greater scope for accommodating multiple gauges and warning lights in a single housing.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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You indicated in your earlier posts that 0~120 mph is the lowest speedometer speed-range available from Speedhut, but it seems that the speedometer speed-range is 0~90 mph, for their 5•5 inch diameter, substitute classic-Jeep speedometers (with integral water-temperature gauge & fuel-level gauge), and either of the 0~80 mph, 0~120 km/h or 0~140 km/h speedometer speed-ranges, for their 5•5 inch diameter, substitute classic 1950~67 VW 1200 & 1500 Type 2 Transporter speedometers (with integral 0~8000 rpm tachometer); any of which would be better suited to the 1968~79 VW Type 2, irrespective of what engine is installed.
Given that classic Jeeps are probably more likely than 1950~67 “split-screen” VW 1200 & 1500 Type 2 Transporters to be retro-fitted with insanely powerful substitute engines (largely an American obsession I suspect!), it seems strange that the substitute Speedhut speedometer & tachometer for this VW, has a 0~8,000 rpm rev-range; approximately double what the vehicle was designed for!?!
It might be worth investigating, whether these 0~80 mph, 0~120 km/h, 0~140 km/h or 0~90 mph speedometer mechanism as used for the 1950~67 “split-screen” VW 12/1500 Type 2 Transporters and classic Jeep, could also be used in a 4•5 inch and/or 4 inch diameter housing for the 1968~79 VW 1600 & 17/18/2000 Type 2 Transporters!
After all, even with major ultra-expensive upgrades to the aerodynamic characteristics, suspension, steering, brakes, wheels & tyres of 1968~79 VW 1600 & 17/18/2000 Type 2 Transporters, one would almost need to be certifiably crazy, to contemplate driving them at significantly more than 80 mph or 130 km/h; especially on a crowded motorway (i.e. interstate highway in USA parlance) or bendy, hilly rural road, with poor long-range visibility!
https://www.speedhut.com/gauges/
Classic-Jeep instruments
https://www.speedhut.com/gauges/?catid=f376
5-1/2" CJ GPS Speedometer Cluster 90mph - Speedo, Fuel Level, Temp / SKU: GCJ5.5-JEEP-SPEEDO-01
https://www.speedhut.com/kit/GCJ5.5-JEEP-KIT-01/3-...sure-Gauge
Classic 1950~67 “split-screen” VW 1200 & 1500 Type 2 Transporter instruments
https://www.speedhut.com/gauges/?catid=f376
GCD5-175 | 4-1/2" VW Bus, Dual Gauge - 80mph GPS Speedometer / 8K Tachometer (w/ turn signal and high beam) | $405.00
https://www.speedhut.com/ecommerce/product/2944/4-1-2
With LCD odometer & trip-counter, two turn-signal warning lights and high-beam warning light.
GCD5-178 | 4-1/2" VW Bus, Dual Gauge - 120kmh GPS Speedometer / 8K Tachometer (w/ turn signal and high beam) | $405.00
https://www.speedhut.com/ecommerce/product/2956/4-1-2
With LCD odometer & trip-counter, two turn-signal warning lights and high-beam warning light.
GCD5-177 | 4-1/2" VW Bus, Dual Gauge - 140kmh GPS Speedometer / 8K Tachometer (w/ turn signal and high beam) | $405.00
https://www.speedhut.com/ecommerce/product/2957/4-1-2
With LCD odometer & trip-counter, two turn-signal warning lights and high-beam warning light.
Given that the original factory-fitted, mechanical, flexible-drive-cable speedometers, use a simple, reliable, tried & tested technology, I wonder why one would wish to substitute a complex, sophisticated, expensive GPS speedometer that relies upon being able to receive a signal from a GPS satellite, in order to function!?! It’s not inconceivable, that a compatible GPS signal might cease to be available in the future; rendering the GPS speedometer inoperable!
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| naskeet wrote: |
| Unless Speedhut are commonly catering for classic rear-engined vehicles (e.g. most air-cooled VWs, Tatra, Skoda, some Fiat, some Renault and the Chevrolet Corvair & Greenbriar), their wiring kits are likely to be very much too short. This means that purchasers of your product will have to independently source additional cable of appropriate wiring colours, together with a means of reliably connecting these extensions to the wires supplied by Speedhut. |
In addition to the vehicles previously mentioned, there are various other air-cooled or water-cooled, rear-engined vehicles, including the German built Porsche 356, 912 & 911, German built 1970s vintage NSU Prinz, French built 1970s vintage Simca 1000, French built late-1990s vintage Renault Spider Sport & Renault Alpine GTA and the British built Hillman Imp & Husky, Sunbeam Stiletto and Singer Chamois that were assembled by the Rootes Group (part of the American Chrysler Corporation) in Scotland during the 1960s.
When I was a postgraduate engineering student at Cranfield during the early-1980s, the water-cooled, rear-engined Hillman Imp and related cars (with either the 850 cc or 1000 cc, Coventry Climax derived, four-cylinder, in-line, aluminium-alloy, racing-car engine) were popular with members of the university car club. Two of my friends at Chelsea College, University of London had Hillman Imps during the late-1970s.
I also recall a rear-engined FIAT 850T van from the 1980s, that was a little bit smaller than the 1968~79 VW Type 2 Transporter, which were also popular as motor-caravans, of which I saw a few right-hand drive British registered ones.
I think FIAT made quite a few cars with rear-mounted air-cooled engines, including the post-WW2, FIAT 500 “Cinque Cento” with its 500 cc two-cylinder engine, which was later super ceded in the 1970s by the more angular FIAT 126, with enlarged 650 cc two-cylinder engine. Both were short, narrow cars that were smaller than the 10-feet long BMC Austin-Morris Mini, but ideal for negotiating Italy’s narrow winding roads in the towns, villages and countryside. There were other rear-engined Fiats such as the FIAT 850 & 850 Sport. Even with their small size, the Speedhut wiring kits might be too short for the FIAT 500, 126 & 850.
The FIAT 500 “Cinque Cento” was a true “car-of-the-people”, of which 3•6 million were manufactured, that led to the demise of much of the Italian motorcycle industry in a single stroke. It now has iconic status and second-hand resale values are rising steadily! The car weighed only 470 kg (i.e. 1035 pounds in USA parlance), so the 500 cc engine was more than adequate. There are probably a few other rear-engined vehicles, including public-transport omnibuses, of which I am unaware.
I have yet to review the Speedhut installation wiring kits for all of the available instruments, but for the thermocouple based temperature gauges, the supplied thermocouple leads are either 8 or 9 feet long, which would be far too short for a 1950~67 VW Type 2, 1968~79 VW Type 2, 1980~92 VW Transporter T3 (i.e. Vanagon in USA parlance) and possibly other rear-engined vehicles.
If instrumentation wiring for the engine compartment is to be routed along the VW Type 2 chassis members, in common with the original factory-fitted wiring loom, the requirement for external wiring joints or connections should be avoided. Hence, there is a need for a bespoke wiring kit and thermocouple leads, specifically designed for the 1968~79 VW Type 2.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| naskeet wrote: |
For example, one might potentially have three-gauge combinations as follows, with warning lights as appropriate:
• Cylinder-head temperature, oil temperature and oil pressure
• Speedometer with odometer & engine-tachometer
• Fuel-level, voltmeter & ammeter
Or even four-gauge combinations as follows, with warning lights as appropriate:
• Cylinder-head temperature, exhaust-gas temperature, inlet-manifold vacuum & air/fuel ratio
• Speedometer with odometer, fuel-level & engine-tachometer
• Voltmeter, ammeter, oil temperature & oil pressure |
It’s interesting to note that Speedhut also offer various single, double, triple and quadruple gauge clusters in circular housings, of 2-1/16 = 2•0625 inches (i.e. 52•4 mm), 2-5/8 = 2•625 inches (i.e. 66•7 mm), 3-3/8 = 3•375 inches (i.e. 85•7 mm), 4 inches (i.e. 101•6 mm), 4-1/2 = 4•5 inches (i.e. 114•3 mm) and 5-1/2 = 5•5 inches (i.e. 139•7 mm) diameter, plus all-in-one clusters.
https://www.speedhut.com/gauges/
https://www.speedhut.com/gauges/Singles/?catid=f352
https://www.speedhut.com/gauges/Duals/?catid=f12
https://www.speedhut.com/gauges/Triples/?catid=f15
https://www.speedhut.com/gauges/Quads/?catid=f13
https://www.speedhut.com/gauges/All-in-1-Clusters/?catid=f11
So far, the only quadruple gauge cluster combination I have found listed, of 3-3/8 = 3•375 inches, 4 inches & 4•5 inches diameter, have incorporated gauges for water-temperature (ºF or ºC), voltage, oil-pressure (psi) & fuel level.
https://www.speedhut.com/gauges/Quads/?catid=f13
GR338-QUAD-01 | 3-3/8" Quad Gauge - Water Temp, Volts, Oil psi, Fuel Level | US$279.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR338-QUAD-01/1/Quad-Gauge---Water-Temp,-Volts,-Oil-psi,-Fuel-Level
GRM338-QUAD-01 | 3-3/8" Quad Gauge - Water Temp Metric, Volts, Oil psi, Fuel Level | US$279.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM338-QUAD-01/1/Qu...Fuel-Level
GR4-QUAD-01 | 4" Quad Gauge - Water Temp, Volts, Oil psi, Fuel Level | US$310.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4-QUAD-01/1/Quad-Gauge---Water-Temp,-Volts,-Oil-psi,-Fuel-Level
GRM4-QUAD-01 | 4" Quad Gauge - Water Temp Metric, Volts, Oil psi, Fuel Level | US$310.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM4-QUAD-01/1/Quad...Fuel-Level
GR4.5-QUAD-01 | 4-1/2" Quad Gauge - Water Temp, Volts, Oil psi, Fuel Level | US$326.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4.5-QUAD-01/1/Quad-Gauge---Water-Temp,-Volts,-Oil-psi,-Fuel-Level
GRM4.5-QUAD-01 | 4-1/2" Quad Gauge - Water Temp Metric, Volts, Oil psi, Fuel Level | US$326.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM4.5-QUAD-01/1/Qu...Fuel-Level
However, Speedhut offer several other individual gauge functions (together with associated warning-light functions in some cases) in circular housings of 2-1/16 = 2•0625 inches diameter, so it’s conceivable that various other gauge mechanisms & functions could be incorporated into a quadruple gauge cluster combination, of 4 inches or 4•5 inches diameter.
The individual gauge-functions available from Speedhut include:
• Speedometer (mph or km/h)
• Tachometer (rpm)
• Voltmeter
• Oil pressure (Imperial or metric)
• Oil temperature (Imperial or metric)
• Water temperature (Imperial or metric) – water-cooled engines
• Intake temperature (Imperial or metric) – mainly for supercharged or turbocharged engines, but potentially useful re carburettor and/or inlet-manifold icing or excessive intake air-temperatures which could result in detonation
• Cylinder-head temperature (Imperial or metric) – air-cooled engines
• Exhaust-gas temperature (Imperial or metric)
• Air / fuel ratio
• Inlet-manifold vacuum (in.Hg) and/or boost pressure
• Fuel level
• Clock
Ideally, most of these instrumentation functions would be included in all 1968~79 VW Type 2 dashboards, but the challenge would be to do it in a way that was both aesthetically pleasing and ergonomically effective.
If one also utilises the 1968~79 VW Type 2’s dashboard’s central area, where a radio would typically be fitted, this could readily be achieved. I don’t personally favour supplementary gauge-pods mounted on the top of a dashboard, but the factory-fitted installation that was incorporated into a redesigned dashboard, on the British-built, Ford Cortina Mk.2 1600E looked quite elegant.
I have yet to find listed on the Speedhut website, either an ammeter of either the external-remote-shunt (preferred type for a rear-engined vehicle) or internal-shunt variety, but one of these or a more sophisticated amphour-meter are vital for determining whether a battery is actually being charged or discharged. A voltmeter alone, only indicates whether there is the potential to charge a battery!
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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Recalling “andrig’s” comments about the gauges he is / was sourcing from Speedhut, I decided to investigate whether these were custom gauge combinations that were being assembled specifically for him, to satisfy his interpretation of what was needed for the 1968~79 VW 1600 & 17/17/2000 Type 2 Transporter, or simply a slight change in outward appearance of gauge combinations from Speedhut’s existing ranges. It appears that it is / was probably the latter case.
andrig's large 0~120 mph speedometer & small 0~8000 rpm tachometer combination
GR4.5-DUALGPS-ST-01T | 4-1/2" Dual Gauge - 120mph GPS Speedometer / 8K Tachometer (w/ turn signal and high beam) | Price: US$405•00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4.5-DUALGPS-ST-01...high-beam)
Includes LCD odometer & trip-counter
GR4-DUALGPS-TS-01T | 4" Dual Gauge - 8K Tachometer / 120mph GPS Speedometer (w/ turn signal and high beam) | Price: US$389•00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4-DUALGPS-TS-01T/...high-beam)
Includes LCD odometer & trip-counter
andrig's voltmeter & fuel-level gauge combination
The combination voltmeter & fuel-level gauge depicted in andrig’s picture, appears to be based on this instrument.
GR338-DUAL-VF-01 | 3-3/8" Dual Gauge - Volts, Fuel Level | US$146•00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR338-DUAL-VF-01/1/Dual-Gauge---Volts,-Fuel-Level
6~18 V voltmeter & fuel-level gauge
andrig's 140~300 ºF oil-temperature gauge & 0~100 psi oil-pressure gauge combination
I discovered that what “andrig’s” refers to as an oil-temperature gauge & oil-pressure gauge combination, is probably a water-temperature gauge (120~260 ºF) & oil-pressure gauge (0~100 psi) combination, and that it is available in either non-metric units (i.e. ºF & psi) or metric units (i.e. ºC & Bar).
GR338-DUAL-WO-01 | 3-3/8" Dual Gauge - Water Temp, Oil psi | US$228•00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR338-DUAL-WO-01/1/Dual-Gauge---Water-Temp,-Oil-psi
120~260 ºF water-temperature gauge & 0~100 psi oil-pressure gauge
GRM338-DUAL-WO-01 | 3-3/8" Dual Gauge - Water Temp, Oil bar | US$228•00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM338-DUAL-WO-01/1/Dual-Gauge---Water-Temp,-Oil-bar
50~125 ºC water-temperature gauge & 0~7 Bar oil-pressure gauge
I can find no dual-function instrument listed on the Speedhut website that is described as an oil-temperature gauge (140~300 ºF or 60~150 ºC) and oil-pressure gauge (0~100 psi or 0~7•0 Bar) combination. However, I can find two 2-1/16 inch diameter, single-function oil-temperature gauges (140~300 ºF or 60~150 ºC) as follows:
https://www.speedhut.com/gauges/Temperature-Gauges/?catid=f10
GR-OILT-02 | 2-1/16" Oil Temp Gauge 140-300F (w/ warning) | US$134•00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR-OILT-02/1/Oil-Temp-Gauge-140-300F-(w--warning)
GRM-OILT-02 | 2-1/16" Oil Temp Gauge 60-150C Metric (w/ warning) | US$134•00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM-OILT-02/1/Oil-Temp-Gauge-60-150C-Metric-(w--warning)
Also available in the 3-3/8 inch, dual-gauge range from Speedhut, is a pair of 200~1600 ºF EGT (i.e. exhaust-gas temperature) gauges costing US$310•00, which might usefully complement an air/fuel ratio gauge, but for which there would be insufficient extra space available, in the proposed design of substitute instrument binnacle.
GR338-DUAL-EGT-01 | 3-3/8" Dual Channel EGT Gauge 200-1600F (w/ warning) | Price: US$310•00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR338-DUAL-EGT-01/1/Dual-Channel-EGT-Gauge-200-1600F-(w--warning)
Where one would locate the associated EGT Amplifier Boxes I’m not sure, but I am certain that the two 8-feet long, Type-K thermocouple probes would be much too short (probably need at least twice that length!) for a rear-engined, 1968~79 VW Type 2 Transporter, unless suitably-matched Type-K extension cables were also supplied.
Looking at Speedhut’s prices for the 4 inch diameter, 0~120 mph or 0~200 km/h speedometer & 0~8000 rpm tachometer combination (US$389•00), 3-3/8 inch voltmeter & fuel-level gauge combination (US$146•00), and 3-3/4 inch 120~260 ºF or 50~120 ºC water-temperature gauge & 0~100 psi or 0~7 Bar oil-pressure gauge combination (US$228•00), accounts for a staggering US$763•00 for just SIX instrument functions (replacing two existing instrument functions – speedometer & fuel-level gauge) plus a few warning lights, even before one considers the additional cost of further gauge-customisation and the pseudo-original-style 1968~79 VW Type 2 substitute instrument binnacle and matching glove-box cover that “andrig’s” would be creating.
Pseudo-original-style, 1968~79 VW Type 2 substitute instrument-binnacle & glove-box cover
| naskeet wrote: |
| What do you estimate the unit pricing of your product to be, assuming a production run of say 10, 20, 50, 100 or possibly more? Unless you can give a reasonable estimate, you probably won't make much headway with your survey! |
Based on the above analysis, I wouldn’t be surprised if the target retail price is well in excess of US$1,000, for the substitute customised instruments (at least US$763 plus cost of adapters & extra wiring), instrument binnacle & glove-box cover. Some of you might be able to budget that kind of money to upgrade your complement of instrumentation, but I certainly couldn’t, and would not even contemplate doing so, even if I could afford it!
If one compares the quoted prices for the 4•5 inch diameter speedometers, with and without the three warning lights (i.e. two for direction-indicators and one for headlamp main beam), it is apparent that inclusion of the warning lights has a cost of US$21•00 = US$405•00 – US$384•00.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| naskeet wrote: |
Also keep in mind that all speedometers should ideally be dual-scale, calibrated in both mph and km/h, as is the factory-fitted speedometer in my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300, which has large outer numbers for mph and small inner numbers for km/h. Even the export model supplied to New Zealand and possibly Australia which both use km/h, have dual-scale speedometers, calibrated in both km/h (large outer numbers) and mph (small inner numbers).
The 1968~79 VW Type 2 owners in the USA are likely to be vexed after buying such an expensive installation, if they go on an excursion to Canada, Mexico or elsewhere and discover that the speedometer has no kilometre per hour scale! Likewise, similar owners in Canada or Mexico will be unimpressed when they visit the USA, if there is no mile per hour scale. |
Searching the Speedhut website for dual-function instruments, one discovers several interesting combinations of a speedometer (0~120 mph or 0~200 km/h) together with a tachometer (0~8000 rpm) or fuel-level gauge; with or without warning lights. There are similar combinations with a 0~160 mph speedometer, but this speed range is even less appropriate to the 1968~79 VW Type 2 than the 0~120 mph range!
There are various instrument styles, but I have restricted my search to the Speedhut Revolution range of instruments, which would be my preference; possibly because they most closely mimic the style of the VDO Cockpit gauges.
All or most of the Revolution range speedometers, appear to be available with a choice of different styles & colours of bezel, including Revolution Black & Stealth Black, the latter of which is very much like the VDO Cockpit gauges’ bezel.
Sadly, none of the featured speedometers had dual speed scales in both mph and km/h; something I would consider almost essential, for a vehicle used in a region where both scales would be needed when crossing national borders! Having a dual-scale (i.e. mph & km/h) speedometer will be an essential upgrade for my 1973 VW “1600” Type 2 Westfalia Continental motor-caravan which I intend to use again beyond the shores of the United Kingdom.
Even late-model, North American specification, 1968~79 VW Type 2s and VW Type 1 Beetles, were equipped with factory-fitted dual-scale speedometers, so limiting the options to just a single speedometer scale, is likely to reduce the speedometers’ saleability.
Apart from Great Britain and the USA, there are few if any countries of the World, where miles and mph are still used, but foreign-registered vehicles entering from other countries would be well advised to have dual-scale speedometers; if only to avoid speeding fines, licence suspension of even vehicle impoundment!
https://www.speedhut.com/gauges/Duals/?catid=f12
Speedhut Revolution dual-instrument combination speedometers, with instrument housings of 4 inches & 4-1/2 = 4•5 inches diameter, with the following combinations:
Speedometer & Tachometer
4 inch or 4-1/2 inch diameter, large 0~120 mph speedometer, with small 0~8000 rpm tachometer, LCD odometer & trip-counter and two direction-indicator (i.e. turn-signal) & single main-beam (i.e. high-beam) warning lights.
GR4-DUALGPS-ST-01T | 4" Dual Gauge - 120mph GPS Speedometer / 8K Tachometer (w/ turn signal and high beam) | Price: US$389.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4-DUALGPS-ST-01T/...high-beam)
GR4.5-DUALGPS-ST-01T | 4-1/2" Dual Gauge - 120mph GPS Speedometer / 8K Tachometer (w/ turn signal and high beam) | US$405.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4.5-DUALGPS-ST-01...high-beam)
4 inch or 4-1/2 inch diameter, large 0~120 mph speedometer, with small 0~8000 rpm tachometer, LCD odometer & trip-counter, but no warning lights.
GR4.5-DUALGPS-ST-01 | 4-1/2" Dual Gauge - 120mph GPS Speedometer / 8K Tachometer | US$384.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4.5-DUALGPS-ST-01...Tachometer
4 inch or 4-1/2 inch diameter, large 0~200 km/h speedometer, with small 0~8000 rpm tachometer, LCD odometer & trip-counter and two direction-indicator (i.e. turn-signal) & single main-beam (i.e. high-beam) warning lights.
GRM4-DUALGPS-ST-01T | 4" Dual Gauge - 200km/h Metric GPS Speedometer / 8K Tachometer (w/ turn signal and high beam) | US$389.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM4-DUALGPS-ST-01T...high-beam)
4 inch or 4-1/2 inch diameter, large 0~200 km/h speedometer, with small 0~8000 rpm tachometer, LCD odometer & trip-counter, but no warning lights.
GRM4-DUALGPS-ST-01 | 4" Dual Gauge - 200km/h Metric GPS Speedometer / 8K Tachometer | US$368.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM4-DUALGPS-ST-01/...Tachometer
GRM4.5-DUALGPS-ST-01 | 4-1/2" Dual Gauge - 200km/h Metric GPS Speedometer / 8K Tachometer | US$384.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM4.5-DUALGPS-ST-0...Tachometer
Speedometer & Fuel Gauge
4 inch or 4-1/2 inch diameter, large 0~120 mph speedometer, with small fuel-level gauge, LCD odometer & trip-counter and two direction-indicator (i.e. turn-signal) & single main-beam (i.e. high-beam) warning lights.
GR4-DUALGPS-SF-01T | 4" Dual Gauge - 120mph GPS Speedometer / Fuel Level (w/ turn signal and high beam) | US$389.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4-DUALGPS-SF-01T/...high-beam)
GR4.5-DUALGPS-SF-01T | 4-1/2" Dual Gauge - 120mph GPS Speedometer / Fuel Level (w/ turn signal and high beam) | US$405.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4.5-DUALGPS-SF-01...high-beam)
4 inch or 4-1/2 inch diameter, large 0~200 km/h speedometer, with small fuel-level gauge, LCD odometer & trip-counter and two direction-indicator (i.e. turn-signal) & single main-beam (i.e. high-beam) warning lights.
GRM4-DUALGPS-SF-01T | 4" Dual Gauge - 200km/h Metric GPS Speedometer / Fuel Level (w/ turn signal and high beam) | US$368.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM4-DUALGPS-SF-01T...high-beam)
GRM4.5-DUALGPS-ST-01T | 4-1/2" Dual Gauge - 200km/h Metric GPS Speedometer / 8K Tachometer (w/ turn signal and high beam) | US$405.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM4.5-DUALGPS-ST-0...high-beam)
4 inch or 4-1/2 inch diameter, large 0~120 mph speedometer, with small fuel-level gauge, LCD odometer & trip-counter, but no warning lights.
GR4-DUALGPS-SF-01 | 4" Dual Gauge - 120 mph GPS speedometer / Fuel Level | US$368.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4-DUALGPS-SF-01/1/Dual-Gauge---120-mph-GPS-speedometer---Fuel-Level
GR4.5-DUALGPS-SF-01 | 4-1/2" Dual Gauge - 120 mph GPS Speedometer / Fuel Level | US$384.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4.5-DUALGPS-SF-01...Fuel-Level
4 inch or 4-1/2 inch diameter, large 0~200 km/h speedometer, with small fuel-level gauge, LCD odometer & trip-counter, but no warning lights.
I HAVE YET TO DETERMINE WHETHER A 4-1/2 INCH INSTRUMENT OF THIS TYPE EXISTS!
GRM4-DUALGPS-SF-01 | 4" Dual Gauge - 200km/h Metric GPS Speedometer / Fuel Level | US$368.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM4-DUALGPS-SF-01/...Fuel-Level
Tachometer & Speedometer
4 inch or 4-1/2 inch diameter, large 0~8000 rpm tachometer, with small 0~120 mph speedometer, LCD odometer & trip-counter and two direction-indicator (i.e. turn-signal) & single main-beam (i.e. high-beam) warning lights.
GR4-DUALGPS-TS-01T | 4" Dual Gauge - 8K Tachometer / 120mph GPS Speedometer (w/ turn signal and high beam) | US$389.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4-DUALGPS-TS-01T/...high-beam)
GR4.5-DUALGPS-TS-01T | 4-1/2" Dual Gauge - 8K Tachometer / 120mph GPS Speedometer (w/ turn signal and high beam) | US$405.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4.5-DUALGPS-TS-01...high-beam)
4 inch or 4-1/2 inch diameter, large 0~8000 rpm tachometer, with small 0~200 km/h speedometer, LCD odometer & trip-counter and two direction-indicator (i.e. turn-signal) & single main-beam (i.e. high-beam) warning lights.
GRM4-DUALGPS-TS-01T | 4" Dual Gauge - 8K Tachometer / 200km/h Metric GPS Speedometer | US$389.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM4-DUALGPS-TS-01T...peedometer
GRM4.5-DUALGPS-TS-01T | 4-1/2" Dual Gauge - 8K Tachometer / 200km/h Metric GPS Speedometer (w/ turn signal and high beam) | US$405.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM4.5-DUALGPS-TS-0...high-beam)
4 inch or 4-1/2 inch diameter, large 0~8000 rpm tachometer, with small 0~120 mph speedometer, LCD odometer & trip-counter, but no warning lights.
GR4-DUALGPS-TS-01 | 4" Dual Gauge - 8K Tachometer / 120mph GPS Speedometer | US$368.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4-DUALGPS-TS-01/1...peedometer
GR4.5-DUALGPS-TS-01 | 4-1/2" Dual Gauge - 8K Tachometer / 120mph GPS Speedometer | US$384.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GR4.5-DUALGPS-TS-01...peedometer
4 inch or 4-1/2 inch diameter, large 0~8000 rpm tachometer, with small 0~200 km/h speedometer, LCD odometer & trip-counter, but no warning lights.
GRM4-DUALGPS-TS-01 | 4" Dual Gauge - 8K Tachometer / 200km/h Metric GPS Speedometer | US$368.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM4-DUALGPS-TS-01/...peedometer
GRM4.5-DUALGPS-TS-01 | 4-1/2" Dual Gauge - 8K Tachometer / 200km/h Metric GPS Speedometer | US$384.00
https://www.speedhut.com/gauge/GRM4.5-DUALGPS-TS-0...peedometer
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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In addition to a substitute main instrument binnacle, there is probably scope for various designs & sizes of single gauge-pod which closely-fits the contours of the dashboard top, that will accommodate several supplementary gauges & warning lights.
This is likely to be particularly appropriate to North American specification 1968~79 VW Type 2s, wherein owners wish to avoid the risk of damaging the dashboard padding by retro-fitting several gauges in the dashboard centre, where a radio would normally be fitted.
The following three-gauge pod, is one that was recently posted on the British, Brazilian VW Bay forum, for Brazilian built, “bay-window-T2c”, 1997~2012 VW Type 2s with either 1•6 litre air-cooled engines (with Bosch Digifant fuel injection, as used on the late-model, Mexican-built VW Type 1 Beetle) or 1•4 litre water-cooled engines.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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hazegray
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2018
Posts: 8
Location: Monument, Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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Good afternoon, great post and great products and ideas.
Q: Has anyone installed the 4.5in Speedhut Speedo and Tach combo?
I am really interested in their products but do not want to have to modify my dash for it to fit. 1970 Bay. Opening at the front, closest to the driver is about 4 3/8s. Will this product work in this opening? The bottom/back of the dash opening is less that the front/top and it appears that this speedo will not be as recessed as the current gauges/instruments.
Thanks in advance. |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33986
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| alman72 wrote: |
| aeromech wrote: |
You hand made that? Did you also make the water temp gauge crooked?
Just kidding, I wish I had your big head. Just kidding, I wish I had your talent. |
temp gauge crooked so that 160F is exactly at 9 o'clock, so a real quick look tells you are at the sweet spot? trying to read a gauge at 80mph plus is not easy. or safe |
This was one of Smokey Yunick's tricks... make sure 12 o'clock was the norm for all gauges. No need to see numbers to know if all is well or you have an oh-shit situation. Smart! |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2954
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| alman72 wrote: |
| aeromech wrote: |
You hand made that? Did you also make the water temp gauge crooked?
Just kidding, I wish I had your big head. Just kidding, I wish I had your talent. |
temp gauge crooked so that 160F is exactly at 9 o'clock, so a real quick look tells you are at the sweet spot? trying to read a gauge at 80mph plus is not easy. or safe |
This was one of Smokey Yunick's tricks... make sure 12 o'clock was the norm for all gauges. No need to see numbers to know if all is well or you have an oh-shit situation. Smart! |
The 12 o'clock norm position is also illustrated in the Open University, technology course texts re T292 Instrumentation, for application to nuclear power stations, chemical process plants etc.
https://www.open.ac.uk/library/digital-archive/module/xcri:T292/study
https://www.open.ac.uk/courses/engineering
https://www.open.ac.uk/courses/modules/t212
I had long wondered when and if this topic thread might resurface! Judging by the lack of posts since my last one more than a year ago, I surmise that the initiator of this thread has NOT been inundated with requests for his ultra-expensive, bespoke instrument panel!?!  
| NASkeet wrote: |
| NASkeet wrote: |
| andrig's wrote: |
So, my audience for this product is people who have spent some money on a nice engine upgrade, and suspension upgrade making regular highway speeds and beyond safe.
So, again, the customers I would be targeting would have invested quite a bit in their bay window, making it considerable safer. |
There might be a small specialised market for the product you are proposing, but the smaller the market, the higher the unit cost and the more you will rely upon people's willingness to pay a lot of money for exclusivity, of which I suspect, only a very small proportion will be 1968~79 VW Type 2 owners.
What do you estimate the unit pricing of your product to be, assuming a production run of say 10, 20, 50, 100 or possibly more? Unless you can give a reasonable estimate, you probably won't make much headway with your survey! |
Having looked at your product pricing on andrigsaircooledtechnology.com for custom VW Type 1 engine cam followers (US$429) and the "Next Level Dash" (US$699 NOT including gauges or radio!) for 1958~67 VW Type 1 Beetles, I cannot help thinking that you are likely to have a VERY small uptake on these products! Even with all of the gauges and the radio included in the price, I doubt whether I would be willing to pay as much as US$699 for the "Next Level Dash". |
I notice that the asking price of the 1958~67 VW Type 1 Beetle “NEXT LEVEL DASH” has since been slashed from US$699•00 to US$299•00 (not including gauges or radio). I get the distinct impression that this business venture is being liquidated, although some of the ideas behind it were quite reasonable. In business, it is all too easy to be blinkered by one's own enthusiasm! 
https://www.andrigsaircooledtechnology.com
https://www.andrigsaircooledtechnology.com/product-page/next-level-dash
E-mail: [email protected]
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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