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Masonrmm Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2021 Posts: 2 Location: CA
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 3:02 pm Post subject: Real Time help, 84 Westy Overheating |
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Hello,
My relative is stuck on the side of the road in Kingman AZ and I offered to ask some questions for him to the pro's here on Samba. Westy is a 84 waterboxer. All stock no mods, and no other real issues other than this coolant leak.
Info I have so far:
Van rear heater was leaking badly. He stopped and got a hose barb and connected two hoses that attached to the heater.
Van is now overheating very quickly. Primary and secondary overflow tanks are completely full.
His guess is that he got air trapped in the cooling system and wants to park on a hill and see if he can burp it, otherwise he's going to have to get towed back to Havasu. Does this sound correct? Is there something else he can check to verify the guage isn't just faulty?
Thanks in advance |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6829 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Real Time help, 84 Westy Overheating |
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Remove the hose barb connecting the rear heater hoses and plug them individually with a bolt, tree branch or whatever you can find that will fit the hoses and clamp them tight.
Doesn't sound like it's logical considering it makes a loop through the heater, but it will make a difference in the overheating. _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9800 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Real Time help, 84 Westy Overheating |
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Masonrmm wrote: |
His guess is that he got air trapped in the cooling system... |
That is my guess too.
You can usually coax a bit more coolant in by revving the engine and holding the revs up (say 3000 RPM, I use a clothespin on the cable) and filling the pressurized tank which is usually sucked down a ways under that condition.
Do not let the revs drop until you have the cap back on that tank.
I never had much success with the uphill position (though that is what the manual says) but instead use an electric pump which is more like putting it in a downhill position (letting air out of the radiator bleed screw and closing when coolant appears.
This may require several iterations of bleeding a bit then running -- all that can take a while as you really need to let it cool down between each round. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Real Time help, 84 Westy Overheating |
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The system should easily be able to purge a reasonable amount of air. I agree with not using a coupling between the two rear heater hoses as that acts as a bypass to the radiator. You should still have pretty fair cooling though, did you try cracking the bleed screw on the radiator? Doing so will let any air trapped in the radiator escape.
If the heater suddenly started leaking way worse and you are seeing full coolant tanks, then it may be that you have a bad pressure cap. Less likely is that you have a combustion leak into your cooling system. |
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Masonrmm Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2021 Posts: 2 Location: CA
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Real Time help, 84 Westy Overheating |
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Thanks for the replies, I just got off of the phone with him. I found a bleeding procedure on here and sent it to him. He was able to mostly complete it on the side of the road (on a hill) and has gotten the Van back home to Havasu.
I'm going to email him these responses so he can look them over. I know he wants to just bypass delete the rear heater so hopefully these will shed some light on that project. |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6829 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Real Time help, 84 Westy Overheating |
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Also tell him to join the Forum ! 😁 _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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Swheels Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2012 Posts: 15 Location: Atlanta
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Real Time help, 84 Westy Overheating |
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Absolutely check the gauge! This is a post that helped me sort out an "overheating" issue that turned out to be not an overheating issue.
greenplasticme wrote: |
Howdy all -
Really enjoy all of the posts floating around here. I am a new owner of an 83 westy, water-cooled. I am havingbthe same problem with the temp gauge where as soon as I turn the gauge on, the temp gauge light turns on and starts blinking and the needle rises.
Let me preface this by saying that I did bring it to a vw mechanic and he was able to do diagnostics to pin the problem to the temp gauge. Knowing this, I went ahead and did a few things.
I have done a few things so far :
1) checked the voltage stabilizer (good) at 9.98
2) replaced the capacitor inside of the temp gauge as illustrated in this post. (old capacitor was fried and leaking)
3) flushed radiator replaced with new fluid
I am at a loss one what to do next. I may bring it to another mechanic for a second opinion, but wanted to hear your thoughts first.
mad.macs wrote: |
So far this has been the most helpful post on this topic I have found while trying to diagnose the incessant blinking of the Temp gauge in my '84 Vanagon. I wasted a bunch of time trying to figure out why there was no 12V on the Blue Green wire before reading that it was a pulse signal. Short story: went through the steps outlined by dbeirl and figured out the problem was in the gauge itself. I can't take any credit for this procedure as I went entirely off dbeierl's outline from earlier in this post.
Temp Gauge R&R
1.Remove Dashpod
2.Remove Flexible Blue Circuit board. I'd been reading a lot about how fragile these were, wasn't the case in my '84 it behaved exactly as a Flex circuit should. It even had a little brake fluid on it and showed no signs of deterioration. Removed the Connector guide from the LH side of the dashpod and all the nuts and screws holding the board on, but left the circuit attached over the indicator lights. In the first figure, I have a nylon probe tool under the circuit, against one of the posts that hold it in place and am rotating the tool probe tool back and forth to gently remove the circuit board from the posts.
3. Remove any remaining screws (all the same length here) and pull the Clock/gauge assembly out of the dashpod. Cover the gaping hole to keep dust out. Remove the temp gauge. Squeeze two small latches and slide gauge out in direction indicated.
4. Remove the black plastic gauge guide from the gauge. Drill out the 2 rivets holding the gauge to the bezel.
5.USE EXTREME CAUTION! There's a lot fo really delicate stuff in here. Desolder the two posts from the board as indicated at the arrows. The Green arrow post is pretty easy to do. The Post with the Yellow arrow pointing to it is tricky, it has the heater wire that runs through a small hole drilled in the post. Desolder the post first, then pull the wire out while keeping the post hot with the soldering iron.
Desolder braid would have worked well here for the posts, but I got by with a solder sucker.
6. Here's the culprit. if you look close at the base of the yellow capacitor you will see a little corrosion from the caps electrolyte leaking out. This cap has failed. It is a 10uf 16V cap and is pretty small, 0.25x0.125. I stole one out of an old amplifier I had laying around. It was a bit bigger but it did fit. The Striped (-) side of the cap goes in the hole closest to the IC chip.
7. Clean the solder out of the tiny hole in the post for the heater wire. Make sure you can pass the wire through BEFORE putting the board back in place. Then install the board, thread the wire and resolder the two posts back up. Make sure the heater wire is not contacting anything other than the post its soldered to and the heater it's attached to.
8. I used 5 Min Epoxy to glue the gauge and bezel back together, just three small dobs to hold the rivets in, and hold the bezel to the face. I did this twice, once so I could test the gauge, then a bit more to secure it permanently, but leaving it possible to open it back up if I need to.
9. Re-assemble the gauge pod and dashpod
Yaaaayyyy! No more Blinking light! Thanks dbeierl!
This is not a difficult project, but it does take a fair amount of patience, and a very steady hand. |
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_________________ 1984 2wd Westy "Gus" |
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brundl3fly Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2012 Posts: 32 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Real Time help, 84 Westy Overheating |
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Hi everyone, thanks for the help. I am the subject of the OP's question so I am actually a forum member, just under distress at the time and he checked in for me.
Bottom line was it was what I and others were thinking: air bubble in the coolant stream due to the removal of the rear heater core lines. The heater core was leaking pretty severely and when I was inspecting it the white cap snapped off which made it very much worse (and maybe began the ntro of air to the system, I don't know). I went to the parts store and got a double barb in 5/8" and took the hoses off the heater core, placing the barb between them.
This solved the leak but then afterward the temp light came on. After you all confirmed my suspicions I went back to the van and cracked the 14mm bolt on the radiator. I heard hissing immediately. I left the bolt off and removed the caps from both tanks in the back. I filled the one with the blue cap (not the normal fill tank, sorry I don't know the exact term for it and don't want to call it something wrong) and squeezed the air out of the hoses before starting up. Back at the radiator fluid had leaked out so I thought most the bubbles were gone. I put everything back and checked level again. The drive after that was fine all the way home (over an hour).
I had heard some people saying that putting the 2 hoses together could cause issues? Not enough restriction I think? The barb marries the hoses together at a pretty severe angle which pinches them off pretty good, that may be introducing enough restriction to emulate the heater core that is now missing. Thoughts?
Now I'm chasing down why the oil light comes on at idle. Always something! In that case I had a severe leak at the oil sender. It was replaced but on this first long trip afterward I noticed the oil light come on when the van was warm and the temp outside was warm. I'm thinking the emergency oil I'd put in when I was shooting oil all over the back of the van from the faulty sender is too low of viscosity for conditions and I need to change to 20w-50. I have an oil change scheduled now. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Real Time help, 84 Westy Overheating |
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If you have normal bearing clearances you should never need 20w50 oil. I would put a gauge on your system (remove the pressure oil pressure switch to do this) and see what your oil pressure really is. Until it proves itself otherwise I don't put much faith in a new oil pressure switch.
When filling and bleeding the system you want to rev the engine until you see the level draw down in the pressurized tank (the one to the far left). Keep the engine revved until the tank is full and you have put the cap back on. A piece of a folded matchbook can be used to hold the throttle open. |
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Yellow Rabbit Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2005 Posts: 1146
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Real Time help, 84 Westy Overheating |
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I can’t remember the last time I saw a book of matches. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Real Time help, 84 Westy Overheating |
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Yellow Rabbit wrote: |
I can’t remember the last time I saw a book of matches. |
It can be anything of the right thickness, texture, and overall size to hold the rpms in the 2000-2500 range. |
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