hi rev springs data

[bearwin]

hello, i would like to ask if you have some data, like compression, tension of several aftermarket Single hi rev valve springs..?
bugpack, empi, scat, engle, cb performance
i would like to know which is the harshest and the softest..thanks

[UK Luke 72]

The data is all out on the web if you do a little googling.

How much spring do you need?
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Cb Performance has their singles listed at 1.500" gives you @ 120 lbs., and @ .500'' lift gives you 220 lbs. Their higher end VW650 dual spring is 1.540" gives you @ 160 lbs., and @ .630'' gives you 420 lbs.

[Dan Ruddock]

One thing you have to keep in mind is all HD singles have little to no damping control. They go into a harmonic dance if pushed hard, thus they don't last very long and will require periodic replacement. Tell us more about your valve train and your intended usage for better advice. Remember, not enough spring will do more damage than too much.

Dan

[c77owen]

[Casting Timmy]

There are a few stronger single springs, hopefully someone can give you numbers on these.

Hi Rev singles - probably the lowest above stock
VW650 - some use just the outer spring only and this gives more force than a "Hi Rev" Singles
Pretty sure this is a european or another manufacturer making a pretty stiff single spring as well, not sure how it compares to the VW650 outer though.

I plan on using VW650 outers only with a 42mm intake valve but will also do a light valve train. (Aluminum pushrods, lightweight lifters, titanium retainers)
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[Casting Timmy]

Found my notes on a post from Pat on Facebook:

VW650's good up to 7k wth 42mm valve
120lb seat
270lb lift
Not sure the lift...or the rest of the valve train, that's what I wrote down so check the rest of your combo out as well.
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As seen in Volks America Issue 14 Page 11 (Full page review)

[vwracerdave]

[QRP]

[modok]

any single spring has a frequency, which results in nodes which occur at certian rpms where the spring is more apt to surge.
It is very much luck exactly where these nodes will be VS the actual limit from just sprung force.
You might run out of spring force at 6000 rpm, or hit a node 1000rpm sooner.
Could be made better or worse by how much flex is in your pushrods or exactly how the cam is ground.


IMO it is always a good idea to run springs near bind, because the frequency of a spring goes up AS it binds.

Progressive wound springs, beehive, conical, oval wire, dual springs, are all ways of making spring have a less pronounced single harmonic frequency VS a normal spring.
Dampeners and tight fitting spring seats and tight fit duals also dampen spring surge with friction.
The lighter the spring is for what force it puts out means a higher frequency, which is usually better, tho the only way to get more force out of a smaller spring is use better materials.

The engle 110 does not have any wild amount of lift or peak velocity, but it does have rather abrupt transition from lash to max velocity, maybe this does roughly match the usual practice of using springs with a lot of seat pressure not set to any particular height.

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[QRP]

So from the information I've been reading and again I like to keep it simple.

Up to 5000 rpm you're in the green.

Between 5000 & 6000 you're in the yellow.

And above 6000 rpm you're on your own.

For me it boils down to how I drive the car 90-95% of the time anyway.
If I have to pile on heavy duty everything for just 5-10% of my driving I choose not to.

I guess it's really up to the individual to take a realistic look at what they need as opposed to they want.

[Alstrup]

[Ohio Tom]

Also remember that springs seat pressures are for "new" springs.
Run it for 5min and they will all lose some seat pressure.
A year later, they are down a bit more.

So, better to over spring and not worry about fading.

Also, if you run anything more than a stock spring, you NEED chromoly retainers. Stock ones are just stamped steel and will pull thru with any sort of heavy spring.

I put 650's in almost everything any more. You can set them up "loose" for lower seat pressure and they will last forever in a mild application.
Also, being shot peened and TiN coated makes them less likely to break or fail.

Agreed that anything that's getting 6,000rpm or higher needs duals just to dampen out the harmonics.

Berg triple springs are really good at dampening, but they create alot of friction and can overheat if pushed for more than a 1/4mi blast. I have seen them overheat and break.

[vwracerdave]

Valve float can happen from how quickly a valve increases RPM and not just how high RPM the engine revs. Valve float can happen at 3000 RPM.
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[Wreck]

I'm running PAC ovate beehive's , chromoly retainers , 47mm stainless valves , redline at 7000 ,so far 30,000km 3 years , no issues with the springs .
I went with beehives because I didn't want to weaken the guide boss area by cutting for dual springs .
I've fitted Autocraft style spray bars that squirt on the springs that will help cooling so I think I'll get good life out of them , lift is 0.570" duration 274.

[ekacpuc]

If I was to look into single springs I would use beehive. I never liked that VW singles don't have a damper spring. The shape of the beehive helps with harmonics. Duals should have a interference fit to help but the CB duals I removed don't..

[Dan Ruddock]

For those who have not watched this yet.

https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=...Hw3mWYgO6M

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[QRP]

All very good info above from people with far more experience than I'll ever have!
I figured the beehives would pop up at some point.

I always find it amazing how some new technology is soaked up quicker than beer at a frat party and some not.
Example - ignition systems have moved far beyond the tried and true 009 / blue coil combo and some will spend hundreds on the ignition system alone

BUT!!!

Beehive springs are bypassing when it comes to valve train, from my limited knowledge they are far superior to the old technology.