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CGriz Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:46 pm Post subject: Auto Transmission Filter Sludge / Shavings |
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86’ 2.1 auto here. It’s probably been 10-15 years since the ATF was replaced on our van, finally got around to it today and installed the FAS heat sink cooler while I was at it. Below is a video of the filter, it was thick and borderline sludgy with metal shavings. Should I be concerned? Reading these things is like palm reading for me. The transmission works fine besides shifting slightly heavy sometimes and being slow to get into gear after sitting all winter. I replaced the fluid with type F and it seems to be shifting a little crisper. Here’s a video of the filter, I tried to upload photos but my phone keeps shutting down: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1uAmgyBXqd0xWDwQ6tIqfIyK5CEs1DrVo _________________ Sadie is an 86’
2.1 L, 115,000 Miles |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50270
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Transmission Filter Sludge / Shavings |
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What use do you make of your van? Are you going to be touring the breadth of the country or will you be mostly driving within a few hours of home?
If the latter I would just clean the filter cover (which you show) and the filter element and run with it until it begins to not shift right somewhere down the road.
Last edited by Wildthings on Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CGriz Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Transmission Filter Sludge / Shavings |
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It’s a summer recreation vehicle for us - we did a long cross country road trip a couple years ago and now we probably put on between 1-3k miles/ year. _________________ Sadie is an 86’
2.1 L, 115,000 Miles |
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Merian Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014 Posts: 5212 Location: Orygun
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Transmission Filter Sludge / Shavings |
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the real questions are how long the filter has been in there, and how your A/T feels or sounds when driving
I could not see your video BTW only a still at the start _________________ .... |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17018 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Transmission Filter Sludge / Shavings |
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I’d do a couple more fluid changes with some driving intervals. The problem is fresh ATF is likely cleaning the insides of your automatic and torque converter. The “residue” will end up in the pan. _________________ ☮️ |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32438 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Transmission Filter Sludge / Shavings |
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MarkWard wrote: |
I’d do a couple more fluid changes with some driving intervals. The problem is fresh ATF is likely cleaning the insides of your automatic and torque converter. The “residue” will end up in the pan. |
I've yet to drop my pan but I've been changing the ATF. Mine was slightly burnt when I got it.
I'm gambling and flushing out all of the old. I'm up to six oil changes and 13 qts used.
It driving and shifting well.
The oil is still coming up slightly brown and slightly burnt smelling. It is far better than I started with!
The oil is now consistently clear and has an oil smell along with the light burnt smell.
I plan to drop the pan soon but I am afraid of what I may find!
I figure I will use 20-24 qts by the time it's clean. The new detergents are scrubbing things as I drive.
It is a gamble, it could scrub loose a catastrophic chunk!
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17018 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Transmission Filter Sludge / Shavings |
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I’ve added weld in drain bungs for some of the other automatics I’ve owned. It makes draining and filling ATF almost painless. Don’t do this, but I watched on a TV show, where they drilled a hole in a torque converter to drain it and used a pop rivet with some sealer to plug it up. Crazy. _________________ ☮️ |
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CGriz Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 5:07 am Post subject: Re: Auto Transmission Filter Sludge / Shavings |
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Mark - Interesting idea to add a drain plug. I had to drop the pan because I could not get off the dip stick tube. I wanted to change the filter and clean everything up anyway though. I only drove a few miles before changing again - my thoughts are to be done with it and just stay on the regular schedule of servicing every two years, although now you have me worried about the new fluid cleaning out old sludge - that’s the reason I waited so long to do this job to begin with....
Djkeev - Why not just drop pan, clean everything up and change the filter while you’re at it? Or perhaps that will be your final step once you feel your fluid is actually cleanish? I did have to wrestle a little to get the new gasket to stay in place as others have noted. I put on Type F - it could be my imagination but I believe it is shifting a bit faster and maybe smoother. _________________ Sadie is an 86’
2.1 L, 115,000 Miles |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17018 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Auto Transmission Filter Sludge / Shavings |
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I would not worry about "cleaning" your internals at this point. It's just one of those tales. Car goes 100,000 miles before it gets it's first ATF change. Shortly after the trans starts acting up. Not anything really documented.
I checked and got my last weld in drain plug from Amazon and they no longer show it. Summit Racing or JEGS should have a weld in plug assembly. The amazon one had straight threads and a seal. The other ones I came across were pipe thread, which seals, but not as reusable.
Don't utilize a bulkhead type. I've seen them come loose and you are pulling the pan back off to seal it. _________________ ☮️ |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50270
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Auto Transmission Filter Sludge / Shavings |
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Assuming the nut on the filler pipe is not badly buggered up at this point, just buy a tubing wrench that fits it and then you will not have to worry so much when it comes to removing the pipe to drop the pan.
Even an open end wrench is better than a Crescent Wrench here.
Last edited by Wildthings on Mon May 10, 2021 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CGriz Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Transmission Filter Sludge / Shavings |
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Forgot to add I also replaced the original automatic transmission cooler with an FAS heat sink cooler while I was at it. It was an easy job after I finally got all the bolts off...need to remember to spray with penetration lubricant the day before I start these jobs. _________________ Sadie is an 86’
2.1 L, 115,000 Miles |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32438 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9527 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Auto Transmission Filter Sludge / Shavings |
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There are bolt-in 2peice drain plugs.
You can drill a little hole to drain it.
Then unbolt the empty pan and install the bolt-in drain plug.
Then replace the pan and it’s easier next time. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17018 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Auto Transmission Filter Sludge / Shavings |
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Sodo wrote: |
There are bolt-in 2peice drain plugs.
You can drill a little hole to drain it.
Then unbolt the empty pan and install the bolt-in drain plug.
Then replace the pan and it’s easier next time. |
I’ve seen them loosen over time and leak. Plus they have a step that doesn’t let the pan completely drain. But if you don’t have a friend with a welder it’s an option. _________________ ☮️ |
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