stock bus 1.7 type IV build

[raygreenwood]

Just for the record...yes....thats a stock type 4 pump. Very good pumps but they have a few wear issues in the long run tbat can affect overall pressure. Its why I noted the gear end play and backlash should be checked.

You can check your cam bolt to pump bolt and boss clearance with a lump of clay. Imstall pump and turn engine. Takes a couple of tries....but worth it to know.

You "should" have plenty of clearance with what you have done. Ray

[dlwilson]

I'm ready to find my crankshaft endplay. But when I disposed of the old crankshaft, after getting a replacement, I neglected to get the flywheel dowel pin out of it. I googled extensively, but could not find the size. So I ordered a 5mm x 8mm dowel, which arrived today. It fits loosely in the flywheel, but does not fit into the crank. The hole in the crank is slightly countersunk, and the dowel fits into that, but not into the hole itself.

So, is this the right dowel? I recall seeing the dowel sticking out of the old crankshaft, so I assume it's supposed to go into the crankshaft hole. This is a 1.7L used crank I bought off eBay in standard size and had polished. Can I just find a roll pin that fits?
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1977 Bus, with 1973 1.7L engine (rebuild complete, install underway)

[raygreenwood]

[dlwilson]

long - please read!

I've ordered the shim to set crankshaft endplay, which hopefully is the last time I have to wait for yet another long lead time small part. While I wait I'm working on final engine dress, and have many questions. This engine came missing lots of small parts, so I'm not sure how things go back together. I'll save the contentious question for last, and put pictures at the bottom so it's easier to respond to the list. All responses appreciated.

1. spark plug holders I got two of the three-wire holders pictured below to try to route the wires neatly, but I don't see where they go. There are two small holes in the tin where I would expect the holders to fit, but the holders are too big for the holes. There is one hole which is perfectly sized, but it is right next to the distributor, so it doesn't do much good. Do I need different holders?

2. breather hose there is a short tube coming off the breather box which points more or less at the breather on the right cylinder head, so I'm guessing I just need to run a hose between the two? Does it require any kind of PCV or check valve? I'll have to remove the plug from the head and reinstall the barb fitting which I didn't realize I needed.

3. alternator plug the alternator has an ancient 1970s connector on it. I am a big fan of GM weatherpack connectors, and I don't see any reason not to use one here, as well as wiring the other side of the connector into the bus once I figure out where all the wiring goes.

4. heater box inputs my heater boxes were rotten and filled with mud daubers, so I've removed the sheet metal and the aluminum heatsinks, and will just run the cast tubes. I won't need air blowing from the fan into the boxes, so I plan to close off the outlets on the fan shroud with sheet metal covers sealed with RTV and pop riveted in place so as never to fall off. Problem?

5. alternator seals I've found the ovalish seal for the front of the alternator tin, but can't find the one that goes around the dipstick. I have the circular one that goes around the front of the alternator, but it's somewhat melted. Are there sources or alternatives for these?

6. unused holes in engine tin There are two or three round holes of different sizes in the tin which seem to serve no purpose. I'm planning to fill these with solid rubber grommets. Necessary? Problem?

7. flywheel dowel I still haven't found the correct size. Is it needed? There are five beefy bolts holding the flywheel, unlike the Type 1 gland nut. Is the dowel just to clock the flywheel the same way every time? I think I can leave it out.

8. fan bolts Two of the three Allen cap screws holding the fan on were stripped out and I had to drill them. I notice that the third screw is actually a CV bolt cut shorter to fit. I've got lots of CV bolts, any reason not to cut down two more?

9. oil cooler flap position Here's the big one. Pray for me. The engine came with no thermostat stuff other than a cable pulley. I found used flaps and crossbar, but they came without the u-shaped clip to attach the left cooling flap to the crossbar. I want to wire/rivet/hold the flaps in place, but don't know what the proper position is. Where the does the thermostat hold the left flap? Is it all the way up, or in a middle position? I think the right flap can go all the way up? Thoughts on how to fix the flaps in place?

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1977 Bus, with 1973 1.7L engine (rebuild complete, install underway)

[raygreenwood]

That style of breather..... is either from a 411 or 412 wagon or an early bus with carbs.

This is true because A. There is no oil adding funnel built into the top of the breather and B. There is no PCV valve built into the recess on top.not to either of the cylinder heads.

That breather hose did not and should not go to EITHER of the cylinder heads.

On type 4 engines....that breather box is the high point.....the final draw point....for removing gases from the crsnk case. It is actually an oil baffle (and a pretty good one) inside of that black box. And underneath it....cast into the case and you can see it,when the case is apart....is a "Z" baffle or zig-zag to help oil drop out of the gasses as it changes direction.

All type 4 engines.....that hose from the baffle box either went to the air cleaner on carbs, to the intake boot right in front of the TB on L-jet injection (and almost always had a pancake shaped PCV valve built onto the baffle box) or to the center EFI manifold on D-jet injection...and employed a spring loaded PCV valve in D-jet.

Because there is no PCV valve of either type in that oil baffle box......it should be plumbed to an air cleaner on the outside of the air filter to prevent gas flame ignition with a piece of gauze as a final oil baffle.

As for weather pack connectors......yes they have some of the very best PLUG BODY and weather seals on the market.
However.....the internal male and female connectors are systematically the very WORST and least reliable connector designs in the entire automotive industry.

Virtually all of the weatherpack connectors used in GM vehicles from the late 70s through right about 2000....were ALL designed simply to circumvent existing patents by Bosch and AMP. Meaning it was all about money and not having to pay patent royalties to use proven connector designs.

Since the blanket patents covered some 30,000 part numbers.....what little GM and weatherpack were able to field were simply horrendous....and were single handedly reaponsible for GM having the least reliable fuel injection in the world from the 80s to about 2000/2002.....when they finally entered into a manufacturing partnership with Tyco/AMP.....and now use the same high quality designs everyone else had been using for 30+years.

Big fan of weatherpack plugs and seals. However, you need to be selective about what male and female internal connectors those plugs use.

Ray

[nogoodwithusernames]

Some notes from my T4 conversion a while back. The wiring for the alternator, unless you are running the stock relay board from a vehicle equipped with the T4, you will need to splice in a wire to the generator light from D+ terminal to get a charge. Other than that get a T4 VR and wire it exactly like the diagram just with splicing in that extra wire that is usually built into the relay board socket.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/411_1971b_usversion.jpg
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71 Squareback, 1.7l T4 w/ crank trigger fuel and spark
(Conversion thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=732508&highlight= or https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151375&sid=f0542d44a322d290c29d6609fac7f215 )
74 914, 2.0L w/ D-Jet

-Derek

[dlwilson]

I haven't made much progress because I've been trying to get the correct crankshaft endplay shim. I somehow ordered the wrong one by mistake, so after waitng a few days I got a 0.38mm, but I need a 0.24mm. Then I found 0.24mm shims on eBay, and ordered one, but it was part number 113105281A, which I'm sure you all know is a 0.24mm shim for a type 1 engine. Also, they sent me 100 of the shims for some reason. I emailed the eBay seller asking if they want them back, but no response.

I ordered the correct shim from a seller in Miami near me, but just got an email today cancelling the order because it's back ordered.

So I will trade 100 pieces of part number 113105281A for a single piece of type 4 0.24mm crank endplay shim.

In happier news I did have the opportunity to melt the aluminum off the other exhaust manifold, so it's ready to go on the engine.

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1977 Bus, with 1973 1.7L engine (rebuild complete, install underway)

[dlwilson]

I'm making progress again. It took weeks to find a supplier, but I finally ordered from Buslab, and they came through for me with 0.24mm crank endplay shim. With that in hand I was able to put the shims and flywheel seal in place. I had been wondering what that last big o-ring in the gasket set was for, but discovered it goes in the flywheel, so it did, and then the flywheel, clutch disk, and pressure plate went on. I had a bit of trouble getting the engine and trans to mate up, and at one point I even removed the pressure plate to be sure the clutch disk was aligned. When reinstalling the PP I had a brain fade, and attempted to torque the PP bolts to 40 ft/lbs, as a first step in torqueing them to 80 ft/lbs, like the flywheel bolts. Luckily I was able to get the broken PP bolt out of the flywheel, and replace all six bolts with new 8.8 bolts. And then the engine and trans slipped smoothly together. I had to find the correct length D-bolt for the starter, longer studs for the bottom two holes, and a longer bolt for the top hole opposite the starter.

Now I've been making blockoff plates for the openings on the fan shroud that would normally blow into the heater boxes. I also made a blockoff plate for the mysterious rectangular opening on the sheet metal in front of number 1 cylinder, and I found a large grommet to fill the circular hole over number 3. I've got a new seal around the oil filter tin, boot for the oil pressure sensor, new cooling boot for the alternator, and new cover for the hole in the front of the alternator plate. I have a somewhat melted plastic ring that goes in front of the alternator, and am going to try to fabricate something to replace it.

I hope to have the sheet metal and fan shroud on for the last time soon, and then I can put on the sporty new dual carbs I bought off the Samba classifieds.
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1977 Bus, with 1973 1.7L engine (rebuild complete, install underway)

[dlwilson]

I've had a couple little fixes to do before final assembly. I realized that because I no longer have heater boxes, that I won't have blower tubes going through the sheet metal, so I had to close up the holes for the tubes. Similarly, because I don't have heater boxes there is no place to mount the lower end of the alternator adjustment bracket, so I had to put a bracket directly on the exhaust manifold.

I got all the sheet metal on, and mounted the dual carbs that I bought from a member here. I tried to spin over the engine, but the starter wouldn't engage. I have a starter for an automatic that a vendor told me was the best solution because it doesn't need a bushing in the trans. However it also won't engage with the flywheel. I removed the starter and put 12v to it on the bench, and I can see the solenoid extend and the gear spin. Is this the wrong starter? Should I just get a manual starter for a 091 trans? I am using a 210mm flywheel on this 1.7L engine.

I was able to figure out how to mount the dual carbs, I think. I wondered how to mount the throttle return springs, and then I saw that VW had thoughtfully provided mounts on each side. Are these springs stretched too tight?

I'm pretty close to starting up. I still need to:

get starter to engage and then spin engine without plugs to build oil pressure
find gaskets for those 34 carbs
run fuel line to and from the pump and carbs and gas can
final wiring of coil and distributor and carbs
find a way to adjust and hold the carb linkage at 2000 rpm for cam break-in
tachometer to tell when it's at 2000 rpm (I think I can use a phone app)

Oh, one more question. I tried putting the engine seal all around the engine opening in the bus, and it doesn't really work. Does the seal go all around the engine tin? Do I glue it on, or does it stay in place?
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1977 Bus, with 1973 1.7L engine (rebuild complete, install underway)

[raygreenwood]

In my experience......the seal goes on the tin. I do adhere the seal to the tin. I use RTV.....because:

1. It does not have solvents that will eat paint or powder coating like weatherstrip adhesive or contact cement.....and is easier to remove without,scraping.

2. The seal stays attached to the tin....so if you need to remove the engine for some reason.....it comes with it.

Yes it makes it a PITA if you have to remove individual tin parts.....but its better than trying to stretch the seal around the ID of an opening and keep it in place. It works better to stretch it around the OD of the engine tin lip.

Ray

[busdaddy]

Time will tell on the return springs, you might get a tough pedal from those, the springs for Beetle and early bus with the PICT carb work well there.
I don't glue the seal on myself, they usually pop into place after installation quite well, maybe a dab where the ends meet to keep the joint from pulling apart later, YMMV.
It may idle rough without the second balance tube, you'll also need that for brake vacuum.

You need a 76-79 SR87 starter for that transmission, the auto is too short to engage properly. Look at the pics in this thread so you can confirm the kid at Autozone has handed you the correct one : https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=474509
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

[dlwilson]

[dlwilson]

[busdaddy]

[raygreenwood]

[dlwilson]

I completely mangled the starter bushing trying to drive it in. Then I read about the trick where you use a bolt that just fits inside the bushing, with a nut to back it up.

That bushing was really big, and I even ground a chamfer on it. Anyway, I can't buy one locally, so I'm yet again waiting on one from California. At least I ordered fuel line and tee, and vacuum line, so I really think I will be ready to fire it up soon. Ha ha.
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1977 Bus, with 1973 1.7L engine (rebuild complete, install underway)

[dlwilson]

I wanted to do something while I wait for starter bushing and vacuum and fuel line and voltage regulator, so I filled the engine with oil (yes, I filled the filter). Then I used the engine hoist to pick the engine up to put it on the bench. As I lifted it the weight of the transmission caused it to tilt, and oil began to run out near the fuel pump. So I drained the oil, pulled off the pump, and found that the plastic spacer block was cracked all the way through. I was able to find one online and ordered it, but I attempted to fix this one with plastic JB Weld. I think it worked okay, as I filled the engine back up and tilted it without any leaks.

Hopefully the starter bushing arrives today. Does it make sense to put it and the nut/bolt driver tool into the freezer before attempting to install it?

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1977 Bus, with 1973 1.7L engine (rebuild complete, install underway)

[dlwilson]

We are inching closer to fire-it-up time. The new starter bushing arrived and tapped in easily. I used some blue Loctite sleeve gel on it to be sure. The intakes and carbs and linkage are on. The new starter motor engages the flywheel.

I hooked up an oil pressure light, and spun the motor over with no plugs and the old battery I keep on a trickle charger. The light wouldn't go out. I'll need a new battery for the bus, so today I got one, which spun the motor much faster, but the light still wouldn't go out. Finally I pulled the oil pressure sensor, put in a NPT fitting with a piece of hose stuck into it, and used my little hand pump oiling can to pump it full. Then I spun the motor until oil came out of the hose, then put the pressure sensor back in, and finally the light went out.

Next is plugs, wires, and position the distributor. I'm still waiting on fuel and vacuum lines to come by mail, but I think once they're here it will be startup time. Unless there's one more little piece I need which will take two weeks to get here. If I hadn't glued that fuel pump spacer, that would be the hold up, since the new one won't be here until next week.
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1977 Bus, with 1973 1.7L engine (rebuild complete, install underway)

[busdaddy]

Exciting times!, keep us updated!
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

[dlwilson]

Tonight I put on the fuel lines and fired the engine on the bench. It started right up, but had a bad exhaust leak, and was blowing exhaust pulses through the holes in the sheet metal next to the outer two bolts on the intake manifold. What?

We went as far as running the engine in a darkened garage, and could actually see exhaust flames deep down in these two holes next to the intake manifolds. What?

Finally we pulled off the sheet metal on one head, and removed a spark plug, and by shining a light in the spark plug hole and looking in one of these holes by the intake manifold I could see the back of the exhaust valve. What?

So inside to check the internet, and learn what you already know: smog holes. Whatever. At least it looks like I can plug them without removing the heads I can't find anybody selling plugs, but it appears that they are M10x1.0 allen/grub/set screws. Do I just need to get some M10x1.0 allens and run them down in there? Hopefully the holes are threaded.

Other than it ran pretty well and didn't have any obvious oil leaks, so there's that.
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1977 Bus, with 1973 1.7L engine (rebuild complete, install underway)