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NAES
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 1:55 pm    Post subject: Here's my pile of parts thread (updated) Reply with quote

Hey everyone. I had a little time to go through my engine parts pile and hope you all can help me pick a nice little combination to build.

This will be going into a split bus with a 3.88 straight axle. Torque is more important than all-out HP for my needs and I tend to keep the RPMs on the low side. Freeway speeds typically will be 75ish. I haven't built an engine in well over 10 years so anything radical is out of the question for this engine.

If I can be into this thing for under $1500 I'll be stoked. But I'll spend the money where it is needed in order to make this thing as reliable as possible.



OK here we go.

Cases

I have an AE that I got from a buddy.
Stock bores
Stock thrust
10mm case savers
I think I'll need it cut for 90.5/92s, line bore and thrust checked and possibly cut. Also will need to check deck height and deep stud #3 along with switching to 8mm studs.

I have an AS21 case that has been prepped for a 2276 long term build
Bores are cut for 94s.
Has been align bored and thrust cut. If I remember right it has been bored twice. Of course I'll remeasure to make sure.
Case savers and deep stud #3 with 8mm studs
Has been clearanced for an 82mm crank.
Has been drilled for hydraulic lifters (which I have a new set ready to go). I think they are Chevy Big Block if that makes any difference

Another AS21 case that was in my old bus. Ran it for 10 years with no issues
Cut for 90.5/92.
Line bore will need to be checked
Thrust measures out to 0.78 which is the limit. I've seen a shim that can be added to the thrust to make the case usable but no reviews or much info here. If the case is trash, so be it but if I can save one of the other cases for a bigger and better build I would like to if at all possible.

Cranks.

I have the stock 69mm from by bus engine. No counterweights and will need to be polished at the very least.

I also have the 82mm ready to go for the 2276 but don't think it's wise to use it for this build.

A 74mm "drop in" from CB or similar is looking pretty tempting for $220ish bucks.

P&Cs

I have the 90.5 Mahles from my bus engine that I would like to use. The cylinders look OK and if I hone them I don't see a reason not to clean everything up and reuse them.

Otherwise AA cylinders will set me back about $135.

Camshaft

I have a used 4062 that served me well. The lobes look OK visually but I've yet to measure anything.

That being said, the Web 218 gets great reviews for pushing a bus around

I have a hydraulic cam to go with the 2276 case that has "SLR 250T HYD" stamped on the end but I haven't looked into what it actually is.

Heads

2 sets of stock DP (other than one pair cut for 90.5/92) that aren't cracked. If I were to go with either of them I would want to have them rebuilt.

I also have this gorgeous pair of 040s that were slated for the 2276.
Cut for 94s
Single heavy duty springs
Pretty sure they're 40x37ss valves
Aggressive intake and exhaust porting

Rods

Stock ones pulled from the old engine

New AA I beam rods. I'll have to measure the length and journal size.

Rockers

Stock on stock rocker shafts

Scat 1:4 rockers on solid shafts

Carbs

Spanish Weber 40s and 44s. I may have a pair of 36s floating around as well.

Whichever set I run will need to be sent to Blackline for rebuilding. They've been sitting way too long.

Exhaust A1 Sidewinder. Done

OK that's the bulk of what I have.

I'm expecting a few hundred for machine work
$5-700 for heads if I don't run the ones I have
$3-500 in carb work.
The rest will be misc. expenses. I have good engine tin, distributor and new Alternator, etc.

So with the list provided, I'm hoping you guys can help me out here.

Thank you much! NAES
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Last edited by NAES on Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NAES
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

Pics of the heads. If I need to post pics of other parts please let me know!

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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

if it were me i would take the AE case and prep it for the 2276... lots of folks have had good luck with them. run the 040's and then you have a good base. to start with I think.
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

Bummer on the hemi cut. Do whatever it takes to get them to 9.0:1, use the stoker case, build the 2276, and use the 4062 if its still good. That cam is about as close to a Web 218 as you will get.

Or get some thick wall 92's and build it as a 2180cc.

The heads look decent from here other than the hemi cut. Really fast ports, 40mm intake, 2180+cc, and a lower (240-245deg) duration cam makes for a killer bus engine.

Brian
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

I would get a set of cb lost pan of cheetos heads for it, high air helps speed make torque.the ports in those heads are made right. I would not put old welded up heads on it.I would also do the 82 stroke. as for the hyd lifters thats up to you, I think most are the ford lifter(.874") personaly if I were to use a hyd lifter it would probably be the mopar lifter witch is .904" the chevy is the small one .842 witch limits the lobe configuration....if you use that case make sure you put the right lifter in it.....
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

Wow everyone so far votes for the 2276. I'll admit I'm surprised and a little intimidated to build a big mill like this right out the gate.

That being said I have most of the tools I'll need to put it together properly as well as a pretty good home machine shop as the need arises.

Tonight I went out and started taking a closer look at what I have.

The case is a fuel injected one with the big hunk of magnesium in the #3 area. It has the lower dipstick hole which I think is type 3. It has been stroker clearanced already as well as shuffle pins installed. Bores are cut for 94s, within 0.005" of one another and it appears all the other machine work has been completed. It just needs a serious cleaning and a double check of the bore opening height (deck height?) to insure everything is the same. Thrust is 0.8675"

The crank has already been machined and is marked 0.030/0.030. Crank bearings all measure 2.145" and the rods all measure 2.135"

The rotating assembly has been balanced. Crank, flywheel, pulley amd pressure plate are all marked and indicated.

The pistons have been balanced and marked cyl 1-4. My one concern is wrist pin fit. There is no descernable side play but they do just slip in amd out of the pistons with no resistance at all. They came with Teflon buttons, yay or nay on those?

I'll post a pic of the camshaft card. Lifters are BB Ford at 0.873". I thought they were Chevy in my previous post.

Overall I'm pretty stoked with what I have to work with. I'll take the next couple of days to see what else I need but from the looks of things I may be closer than I realized.

NAES
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

NAES wrote:
Wow everyone so far votes for the 2276. I'll admit I'm surprised and a little intimidated to build a big mill like this right out the gate.

That being said I have most of the tools I'll need to put it together properly as well as a pretty good home machine shop as the need arises.

Tonight I went out and started taking a closer look at what I have.

The case is a fuel injected one with the big hunk of magnesium in the #3 area. It has the lower dipstick hole which I think is type 3. It has been stroker clearanced already as well as shuffle pins installed. Bores are cut for 94s, within 0.005" of one another and it appears all the other machine work has been completed. It just needs a serious cleaning and a double check of the bore opening height (deck height?) to insure everything is the same. Thrust is 0.8675"

The crank has already been machined and is marked 0.030/0.030. Crank bearings all measure 2.145" and the rods all measure 2.135"

The rotating assembly has been balanced. Crank, flywheel, pulley amd pressure plate are all marked and indicated.

The pistons have been balanced and marked cyl 1-4. My one concern is wrist pin fit. There is no descernable side play but they do just slip in amd out of the pistons with no resistance at all. They came with Teflon buttons, yay or nay on those?

I'll post a pic of the camshaft card. Lifters are BB Ford at 0.873". I thought they were Chevy in my previous post.

Overall I'm pretty stoked with what I have to work with. I'll take the next couple of days to see what else I need but from the looks of things I may be closer than I realized.

NAES

If you do go with the 82mm crank (which is a wise idea IMO) then you probably want B pistons which do not work with the teflon buttons because they have a narrower skirt... the buttons will fall out.

The wrist pins should slide in nice and easy, but should not feel loose. They definitely are not supposed to be a press fit.

If you turn the piston horizontally would the wrist pin fall out? If not I think you are fine for sure.

Never heard of Ford lifters in a VW... sounds interesting
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 10:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

Cam sheet specs

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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 10:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

I'll look closer at the pistons to see if they're marked "B" and measure the wrist pin hole to top of piston.

The pins will fall out if you turn the piston on its side so the pin is vertical in the hole.

Thanks for the quick reply and advice. NAES
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

Call Steve Long and ask him about the camshaft you have. He is nice and can provide guidance.

If you are running those semi hemi heads maybe contact Joel Mohr. He runs semi hemis a lot and runs fast and had been doing it that way a long time. It is not everyone's cup of tea but it works for him. http://www.mohrprf.com/index.html
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 12:25 am    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

Brian_e wrote:
Bummer on the hemi cut. Do whatever it takes to get them to 9.0:1, use the stoker case, build the 2276, and use the 4062 if its still good. That cam is about as close to a Web 218 as you will get.

Or get some thick wall 92's and build it as a 2180cc.

The heads look decent from here other than the hemi cut. Really fast ports, 40mm intake, 2180+cc, and a lower (240-245deg) duration cam makes for a killer bus engine.

Brian


Yeah, I agree, the semi-hemi is a bummer, but there is a ring of squish zone around the chamber that might work.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

My vote:

82 x 90.5 (2110cc) for longevity sake. It will hold ring seal forever.

Don't use stock rods (the bolts are not up to the task for a stroker).

I would not recommend any welded head on a motor that will be driven lots of miles. They will eventually crack. Seen it many times.

The bugpak 4062 cam is great. I recommend stock rockers with it to keep lift reasonable.
Single HD springs are fine. Chromoly retainers are required.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

My suggestion is build a nice 2110. 40X35 Panchito heads, FK-7 cam with 1.4 rockers. 44 IDF's with 34mm venturies. 1 1/2" exhaust.

Sell everything you don't need to buy parts that you need. Don't settle for 2nd best just because you have a part you want to use. If it isn't the right part sell it and buy what you want.

I would never build a 2276 for a split Bus. They run too hot.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

I think 92 thick walls are a good option as well Cool That would make it a 2180 which, if build right, should last long too. If that is something that interests you of course. Maybe stick an 86A in there if Web Cam tickles your fancy.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

OK thanks again for all the excellent replies.

I'm kinda bummed about the heads but I would rather bite the bullet and do it as "right" as I possibly can.

I can use the case and rotating assembly that I already have along with the pistons. I can buy 90.5/92 thick wall cylinders to fill the hole and order up a pair of Panchito heads. That sets me back about $750 along with a few hundred more for bearings, studs and other misc items. I'm guessing I'll be right at my $1,500 budget by the time everything is said and done.

A few additional questions.

First is the case. Its already machined to clear the crank. What are your guys thoughts on the Bob Hoover mods? They seem to make sense logically but real world experience trumps theory in my book.

Second, would you do these mods yourself? I am tooled up enough at home to do everything with a reasonable amount of confidence and quality results.

I'll contact Steve Long and see if he can guide me with the camshaft selection and see if he has any other input.

I'll report back as progress happens.

Thanks again everyone, NAES
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

NAES wrote:
OK thanks again for all the excellent replies.

I'm kinda bummed about the heads but I would rather bite the bullet and do it as "right" as I possibly can.

I can use the case and rotating assembly that I already have along with the pistons. I can buy 90.5/92 thick wall cylinders to fill the hole and order up a pair of Panchito heads. That sets me back about $750 along with a few hundred more for bearings, studs and other misc items. I'm guessing I'll be right at my $1,500 budget by the time everything is said and done.

A few additional questions.

First is the case. Its already machined to clear the crank. What are your guys thoughts on the Bob Hoover mods? They seem to make sense logically but real world experience trumps theory in my book.

Second, would you do these mods yourself? I am tooled up enough at home to do everything with a reasonable amount of confidence and quality results.

I'll contact Steve Long and see if he can guide me with the camshaft selection and see if he has any other input.

I'll report back as progress happens.

Thanks again everyone, NAES

I did the hoover mods, and kind of did my own custom oiling mods on the rockers. I'm glad I did it.

I used a simple handheld drill and one of those adjustable angle drill guide attachments. Measure 20 times, drill once kinda deal. I have a couple large industrial type drill presses (no mill tho) but for whatever reason it just seemed to easier to do it precisely with my smaller hand drill and the angle guide. Anyways, it turned out literally perfect for me. I have some pictures in my build thread. If you think you can do it I say go for it.

The real machine that requires a mill I outsourced. But this is just a small hole that needs to be drilled. Doesn't even need to be as precise as most things. The two holes need to line up and you dont want to end up with a hole sticking out the side of the case. Theres a little divot on one side you need to measure. It gets thin there and some castings can have a flaw in that area, or I think also some if the newer cases are cast differently. Castings are never perfect anyway from the foundry that's really why you need to check no matter what.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

Your foot is getting excited about the engine plan with the Vulcan "live long..." greeting:
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Rolling Eyes Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 11:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
Your foot is getting excited about the engine plan with the Vulcan "live long..." greeting:
Rolling Eyes Very Happy


Its a very happy pair of feet!

In Panchito news. I called CB Performance and they're out of heads for at least 2 months. I can spend the time building up the short block I suppose but if anyone has a lead on a pair of heads I would be interested.

Thanks
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts. Help me pick what I should use Reply with quote

They lost the pan of Cheetos?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Here's my pile of parts thread (updated) Reply with quote

So a little progress has happened on my project. Thankfully I can go slow as I have a loaner motor from a buddy so I can putt around at least.

My hydraulic lifter case is at Brothers Machine getting sleeved for regular lifters. I also asked them to go over the previous machine work to ensure nothing was missed. Specifically the line bore, thrust and case deck.

I bought a set of AA thick wall 92's and ordered a pair of Panchito heads from CB which will take 6 weeks to get. Plenty of time for me to get the short block built Laughing

Cam will either be a Bugpack 4062 which I was very happy with in a previous build or a Web 218.

I'm going to talk to Blackline about using either 40 or 44 Webers as I have both on the shelf.

Thats it for now. I'll update with pics n stuff as things happen.

NAES
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