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DRLA 45 backfiring out of carb and exhaust (SOLVED)
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txoval
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

What idle jets are you running? Maybe you have done so since the start, but if you haven’t sync’d the carbs yet, that needs to be done...remove the linkage and sync at idle first.
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

If you have the timing set up correctly now then do what Phil said above synch the damn carbs without the linkage then with the linkage hooked up.

And change the damn oil and filter you have to get the break in crap out!
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evanfrucht
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

Laughing alright I changed that damn oil and the frickin' filter. Checked valves for the fifth time too.

I've only run it for maybe hour total at this point

Right in the middle of various diagnostics... then starter died on me.... oh, the suspense.

What I'm starting to think now is that I have some kind of blockage in my idle jet circuit on only the 1/2 carb (could be stuck soda somewhere from when I blasted them) that is atleast my theory at this point. I cam to this conclusion becuase when I spray carb cleaner into the 1/2 carb it seems to increase idle speed and fix the backfiring upon acceleration into the mid to lower rpms. However when I spray carb cleaner into the 3/4 side the idle will actually slow down.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:29 am    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

modok wrote:
I don't like testing new external components on a new engine, nor do I like running a fresh engine with no load.
Now you know why. Or, at least the first part, and the second part is hindering your ability to have more clues.


To break in a FRESH engine, IMo it is safest to jet it a step richer idle jets and run a few degrees extra advance VS what you would normally expect.

After the engine is broken in and rings fully seated you can find out if your organically grown plug wires interfere with the astron3000 ignition module.

Problem could be unrelated, but it's just not worth the stress. I'll pull the distributor off my own car if I have to.

Ok thanks for thoughts. One of the first things I tried was to swap my original german points distributor in. It might of made something better but honeslty it's hard to tell.

Ya makes sense that running it with no load isn't ideal for tuning but I mainly am running it on the stand to check for leaks and other issues and to make it easier to work on while tuning and getting it ready to install into car.

I'm realizing the exhaust backfire I think I'm hearing may actually be coming from the carbs and just gets amplified through exhaust? or might be caused the carbs idle circuit being lean on the one side (due to some sort of blockage)
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Last edited by evanfrucht on Wed May 12, 2021 8:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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evanfrucht
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

txoval wrote:
What idle jets are you running? Maybe you have done so since the start, but if you haven’t sync’d the carbs yet, that needs to be done...remove the linkage and sync at idle first.

I do have them synced up fairly well now but It may benefit from some fine tuning it on the linkage. I dont think that is my problem tho.

Idle jets are 65
Mains are 160
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

After the cam break in the engine should go directly in the car asap to put a load on it. Your sharpest cross hatch is going away fast as you try to dial in your engine on the stand. How fast you put a load on it sets the tone for how good those rings will ever seal.
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evanfrucht
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:48 am    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
After the cam break in the engine should go directly in the car asap to put a load on it. Your sharpest cross hatch is going away fast as you try to dial in your engine on the stand. How fast you put a load on it sets the tone for how good those rings will ever seal.

Thanks. I believe that is best too and it was my plan to only break in the cam for 20 minutes and then put into car right after to seat rings.

At this point things sort of are what they are. I dont want to throw it into the car if something is a miss... not only will it be harder to work on but I doubt it's really very driveable like this....

On the bright side my heads are kind of experimental and I did a lot of welding to them so I'm planning to do a top end overhaul not to long down the road anyway. Maybe after a few thousand miles... it'l be getting new Grant rings then...
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

It should be easy to clean out the idle circuit if the carbs are on a stand. Circuit means from the idle air hole to the idle jet to the flow path to the mixture screw to out the progression ports. Carb cleaner and air are your friends.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

This sounds simple enough to me..
Your idle mixture screws need to be adjusted.

Popping at idle is a sure sign they are set too lean.
Open up the screw on the offending cyliders a fuzz until the popping is gone.
Done...

That's what they are for...
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

Ohio Tom wrote:
This sounds simple enough to me..
Your idle mixture screws need to be adjusted.

Popping at idle is a sure sign they are set too lean.
Open up the screw on the offending cyliders a fuzz until the popping is gone.
Done...

That's what they are for...

Thanks. The issue is that they are all already pretty much maxed out at 4 or so turns.

I've also found that when spraying a shot of carb cleaner into the throats on 1/2 side the idle speed will increase and the popping at 2000 rpms stops. BUT when I shoot carb cleaner into the 3/4 side during idle the engine wants to immediately bog out and die. That's what leads me to think I may have a clog somewhere on the 1/2 side.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

You may have an intake leak on the 1/2 side if it is happening to both barrels when you spray down it speeds up.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

OK, good info.
Already at 4 turns out (with Dellorto is getting close to maximum).

Either you have a plugged idle jet, or a vacuum leak.

That's a great way to diagnose where your issues are.

I sometimes do the "hand choke" trick.
Just cover the stack with your hand for a quick second. If she picks up and runs for a few seconds, you know it's lean...
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: New build, running rough, backfiring, suspect ignition. HELP! Reply with quote

evanfrucht wrote:
WELL, I guess I just got lucky for a second...

It's still doing the exact same thing as before pretty much. Popping through carbs and backfiring here and there. Now it also seems to not really rev up that nicely. It almost feels like it wants to die or something and kind of vibratez or something when I rev it up to what feels like maybe 3-4K rpms.

Really need help trying to diagnose this issue.


That's main jet territory, i think.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: New build, running rough, backfiring, suspect ignition. HELP! Reply with quote

FreeBug wrote:
evanfrucht wrote:
WELL, I guess I just got lucky for a second...

It's still doing the exact same thing as before pretty much. Popping through carbs and backfiring here and there. Now it also seems to not really rev up that nicely. It almost feels like it wants to die or something and kind of vibratez or something when I rev it up to what feels like maybe 3-4K rpms.

Really need help trying to diagnose this issue.


That's main jet territory, i think.

I think I misspoke there... the problem really becomes clear when I rev it up past idle. At this point I've determined the backfiring is the worst at around 2000-2500 rpm and seems to improve once I have the motor screaming at 4000+ rpms. It also does not backfire while idling at 800 rpms. Only begins popping once I bring it up to maybe 1200-1500 rpms.

It revs up ok... Throttle response feels good

The vibration I was feeling and it not wanting to rev high was just becuase the coil wire loosened up for a second during my distributor swap and trying to diagnose this. I noticed that pretty quick and tightened it back up.... so ya just disregard the part about "now not wanting to rev up to 3 or 4" k... I should of deleted that part....

Also, I tried spraying carb cleaner all around the carb and manifold base gaskets and it doesn't seem to respond like a vaccum leak there would.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

If you can remove the progression cover screw and squirt carby cleaner down the passage from the idle jet and make sure it’s clear .
I had similar issues with a pair of 48 DRLA’s , When I first got the engine running ,one cylinder needed the mixture screw out a lot further , like twice as far . I cleaned and cleaned . Checked for air leaks , compression tests showed even compression . It ran like that for a while , then what ever was restricting it cleared itself and now the mixture screws are reasonably even .
Never did work out what or why , one of life’s mysteries!
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

Ive never seen or heard of a billet 09. dist. what a waste of$$.and aluminum. I was refering to the 09...bosch.germany. and since you swaped side with the crabs you know witch crab isant working right so,,, FIX IT , OR SEND TO SOMEBODY WHO CAN OR REPLACE IT.
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txoval
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

2000-2500 is still the idle circuit.

65 idles seems large for your engine (could be wrong), which seems to indicate an idle circuit clog issue as most are pointing too
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

mark tucker wrote:
Ive never seen or heard of a billet 09. dist. what a waste of$$.and aluminum. I was refering to the 09...bosch.germany. and since you swaped side with the crabs you know witch crab isant working right so,,, FIX IT , OR SEND TO SOMEBODY WHO CAN OR REPLACE IT.

I was saying that I bought a SVDA pertonix III unit. It's basically a chinese 009 lookalike with a "super good" ignition curve and a vaccum can... don't even know why I bought it months ago....

Pertronix also makes a billet distibutor with the same Ignitor III module. Looks like an MSD or something.

You said you had the same distributor so I was just confirming which one you had.

Anyways, I've run some diagnostics. It points to carbs. I'm confident be able to fix this I just could use some help with diagnostics as I lack experience.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: New engine build backfiring out both carbs and exhaust. HELP! Reply with quote

I think it helps to understand where the fuel goes. And check the sizes of all the holes. I don't actually know the size of the little feed hole in the side of the main well, but it's probably somewhere around 1mm. Not much you can do for that one. Hook a piece of mig wire into it and wiggle. The main well itself should be 8mm. Progression port sizes are known, and where the idle needle seats is a calibrated hole too. And there are lots of places for air leaks also at the plugs, at the o-rings.

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 12:25 am    Post subject: Re: New build, running rough, backfiring, suspect ignition. HELP! Reply with quote

evanfrucht wrote:
FreeBug wrote:
evanfrucht wrote:
WELL, I guess I just got lucky for a second...

It's still doing the exact same thing as before pretty much. Popping through carbs and backfiring here and there. Now it also seems to not really rev up that nicely. It almost feels like it wants to die or something and kind of vibratez or something when I rev it up to what feels like maybe 3-4K rpms.

Really need help trying to diagnose this issue.


That's main jet territory, i think.

I think I misspoke there... the problem really becomes clear when I rev it up past idle. At this point I've determined the backfiring is the worst at around 2000-2500 rpm and seems to improve once I have the motor screaming at 4000+ rpms. It also does not backfire while idling at 800 rpms. Only begins popping once I bring it up to maybe 1200-1500 rpms.

It revs up ok... Throttle response feels good

The vibration I was feeling and it not wanting to rev high was just becuase the coil wire loosened up for a second during my distributor swap and trying to diagnose this. I noticed that pretty quick and tightened it back up.... so ya just disregard the part about "now not wanting to rev up to 3 or 4" k... I should of deleted that part....

Also, I tried spraying carb cleaner all around the carb and manifold base gaskets and it doesn't seem to respond like a vaccum leak there would.


Ok, that makes more sense. Idles indeed, after a try with another distributor (with points, preferably). I've had this problem due to a bad rotor,for example, it can be a lot of things. A little bottle to spray in some fuel is really helpful in diagnosing these cases.
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