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1969 squareback "Moose"
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Hoffman
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1969 squareback "Moose" Reply with quote

Quick, but wordy update.
Thanks for the link, Mike. That, and a new quarter pan section should get me squared away. Thanks for the tip on the rails Bobnotch. No welding ability yet, so i'll ask the shop I'm looking at for the pan/bulkhead repair it they could tackle that too.

Took Moose on a short shake-down run yesterday. Breaks are super soft. Had to pump at least twice to get any action. Didn't see any leaking from the wheel cylinders. Hand break is good. Going to try bleeding again, and maybe getting one of those vacuum bleeders. Master cylinder might need rebuilt or replaced. Got a good look at it and the outside is fairly rusty so that puts doubt on the seals.

All my lights work, high and low beams, brake lights, and emergency flashers. Most my dash lights work. Antenna is snapped off, but the aftermarket cd player comes on

The biggest issue i have now is that it's absolutely powerless. Really slow to accelerate and in third with the pedal down I barely made it to thirty. I have it static timed and valves adjusted. Haven't had time to dig into the forums or my manuals, but I know I've read on a few about poor power issues. My speedo bounced a bit and was about 10 mph off according to the speed detector sign near my house (not that i trust that thing). My aftermarket Tach bounced around like crazy and was pretty unreliable. Anyone have any experience with that? I'll try to get a video up if that would help. Idle was steady, no misses or backfires. Acceleration didn't sound like it was missing on anything. My accelerator cable looks longer, maybe stretched, than it should be. It's clamped on the cable a couple inches from the metal ferrule at the end.

The next issue is the shifter being real sloppy and no reverse, as far as I can tell. It's been about a decade, but I'm pretty sure reverse is left and aft, correct? Could my acceleration issues be a bad clutch issue? Didn't really hear any rubbing or grinding. Sorry if I'm sounding a little dumb, still shaking out the cobwebs of not doing anything VW or manual trans for a long time.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: 1969 squareback "Moose" Reply with quote

Hoffman wrote:

Took Moose on a short shake-down run yesterday. Breaks are super soft. Had to pump at least twice to get any action. Didn't see any leaking from the wheel cylinders. Hand break is good. Going to try bleeding again, and maybe getting one of those vacuum bleeders. Master cylinder might need rebuilt or replaced. Got a good look at it and the outside is fairly rusty so that puts doubt on the seals.

The biggest issue i have now is that it's absolutely powerless. Really slow to accelerate and in third with the pedal down I barely made it to thirty. I have it static timed and valves adjusted. Haven't had time to dig into the forums or my manuals, but I know I've read on a few about poor power issues. My speedo bounced a bit and was about 10 mph off according to the speed detector sign near my house (not that i trust that thing). My aftermarket Tach bounced around like crazy and was pretty unreliable. Anyone have any experience with that? I'll try to get a video up if that would help. Idle was steady, no misses or backfires. Acceleration didn't sound like it was missing on anything. My accelerator cable looks longer, maybe stretched, than it should be. It's clamped on the cable a couple inches from the metal ferrule at the end.

The next issue is the shifter being real sloppy and no reverse, as far as I can tell. It's been about a decade, but I'm pretty sure reverse is left and aft, correct? Could my acceleration issues be a bad clutch issue? Didn't really hear any rubbing or grinding. Sorry if I'm sounding a little dumb, still shaking out the cobwebs of not doing anything VW or manual trans for a long time.


As for the soft brakes, it might be that you need to adjust the rears tight, then bleed the fronts again first, then bleed the rears, followed by slacking the rears so the tires will turn. Disc brake cars should have the fronts done first,which seams opposite, but it's called out in Bentley that way.

Sounds like you might need to put a little timing into it.

Sounds like it needs a shifter bushing replaced.
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Hoffman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:41 am    Post subject: Re: 1969 squareback "Moose" Reply with quote

Do to recent world events, I had to step away from Moose for a bit but I've got some free time recently and jumped back in. First was a pretty big scare. I took Moose out for a drive, and half a block from the house I lost all power. Double checked everything and managed to limp back on maybe one cylinder. Pulled all my plugs and found all of them fouled. Easy fix.
I also decided that I wasn't going to pay someone to fix my car, why should I pay someone to weld it? I read through these forums about patches and panels, googled a bunch, and youtube'd a few evenings of videos and pulled the trigger to do my own welding. Here's my modest garage setup.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It's what I can afford, and what my house wiring can handle. I had some spare metal shelves that are about the same thickness as my floorplans. I cut some rough squares and practiced welding up little boxes, also welded up a bigger box to sit in my way back as an organizer

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

By no means professional, but I can stand on it without it breaking.

Decided to start by tackling some little jobs. Every VW needs two things, a mystery oil drip, and a horn. My horn did not work so I pulled it and jumped it straight to the battery, no sound. Got my new one in and still no sound. Trolled the forums and checked the wire down the column and bingo, busted. Ran a new one and now Moose has a call again. Here it is all installed.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Tackled the busted antenna as well. Really easy to replace with a new collapsible one. The fender hole was a bit wallowed out so I put a spot of silicone adhesive to help with a little wiggle. Ran the wire to my radio And now I get all the top local fm channels
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After a little hesitation I pulled the driver's seat and decided to jump into the seat rail repair. I wire brushed everything and lined it up. The outer rail was trickier, but needed less welding so I stared with that.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The inner rail has been broken and repaired at least twice so not all the welds are mine
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It was late so I didn't clean up the welds but I did add a very crucial piece.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: 1969 squareback "Moose" Reply with quote

Nice work. Yup, now is the time to be fixing stuff. Cool
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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Hoffman
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: 1969 squareback "Moose" Reply with quote

I've had a good amount of work around the house to finish but I've managed to make progress on Moose. First I found some more cracks on the seat rails that I welded up (no pics)
Here is the floor pan after some cleaning. Pretty much all eaten away under the seat support. Also found a lot of Bondo and what looks like some mesh support fiber stuff layered around the battery tray.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Cut out all the rot and started figuring where to make my cuts
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Found more weak spots and Bondo so had to cut out more. I cut out the seat support to get more room, and to repair the bottom two inches or so that rotted off
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After about two hours or so of cutting and rough fitting I called it a night. I'm close to the fine tuning stage. I have a couple bigger cuts to make tomorrow to get the back end of the pan to where it needs to be but I'm getting there.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1969 squareback "Moose" Reply with quote

Looks like great progress so far. You're going to want a little more rust off before you start welding though. I'd also put a crap load of tack welds on it, before I'd start welding it in (less chance of it moving on you). Then try to keep your welds down to about 2 inches long, and skip around the panel, adjusting the sheet metal with a hammer to tighten up some spots as you'll find it trying to open as you go.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Hoffman
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1969 squareback "Moose" Reply with quote

I didn't forget about this post. Covid and work really cut into all my time for a few months and my wife developed a very serious medical condition that put working on the car out of the picture for about 6 months

I made good progress, but lost all the photos. Long story short, I did something wrong and on the first trip out, the engine seized up after about a mile. No ETA for an autopsy

Long version:

I got the pan welded in, not perfect, but strong and serviceable. I struggled for a long time with the EFI. I went back and forth reading the sticky and other threads. I finally got it running, but still a little rough.

I found a few places that the seals were pretty gone and oil was leaking out so I decided to rebuild the engine. I got new heads, pistons, jugs, hardware, and seals. I found the old heads had cracks between the valve ports, so good thing I bought the new ones. I followed the Bentley and an acvw rebuild book. I didn't go in depth on the tear-down/rebuild because I needed a working car in a short amount of time.

I eventually got it all back together and could not get it started. I ran through every thing again and the EFI troubleshooting. I ran out of time, bought dual carbs, weber ICT. While I waited for them to show up, I converted to an alternator and pulled all the EFI stuff and boxed it up.

When the carbs arrived I drilled the manifolds, put them all together, installed the new low pressure electric fuel pump and fired it up no problem. I set the carbs and got everything good to go...
First drive around the block I made it four blocks before I heard a noise from the back and lost oil pressure. I pulled over just as the car shuddered died. I went back and tried to move the fan with a pry bar and it was stuck, but good. Totally seized. Called my wife with our other car and pulled Moose home.

She's been sitting for a month while i get settled into a new position at work and lick my wounds.

I'm not going to lie, I'm incredibly discouraged to have to redo all the work again not to mention buying all the parts again. I also have a good amount of apprehension about my ability to do the job right.
My son keeps encouraging me to get her going so he can drive her to school next year. I had just started to teach him and my daughters to drive a car, and a manual to boot.

A good part of me just wants to throw in the towel, sell Moose, and buy a truck.
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VWporscheGT3
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: 1969 squareback "Moose" Reply with quote

Hoffman wrote:
I didn't forget about this post. Covid and work really cut into all my time for a few months and my wife developed a very serious medical condition that put working on the car out of the picture for about 6 months

I made good progress, but lost all the photos. Long story short, I did something wrong and on the first trip out, the engine seized up after about a mile. No ETA for an autopsy

Long version:

I got the pan welded in, not perfect, but strong and serviceable. I struggled for a long time with the EFI. I went back and forth reading the sticky and other threads. I finally got it running, but still a little rough.

I found a few places that the seals were pretty gone and oil was leaking out so I decided to rebuild the engine. I got new heads, pistons, jugs, hardware, and seals. I found the old heads had cracks between the valve ports, so good thing I bought the new ones. I followed the Bentley and an acvw rebuild book. I didn't go in depth on the tear-down/rebuild because I needed a working car in a short amount of time.

I eventually got it all back together and could not get it started. I ran through every thing again and the EFI troubleshooting. I ran out of time, bought dual carbs, weber ICT. While I waited for them to show up, I converted to an alternator and pulled all the EFI stuff and boxed it up.

When the carbs arrived I drilled the manifolds, put them all together, installed the new low pressure electric fuel pump and fired it up no problem. I set the carbs and got everything good to go...
First drive around the block I made it four blocks before I heard a noise from the back and lost oil pressure. I pulled over just as the car shuddered died. I went back and tried to move the fan with a pry bar and it was stuck, but good. Totally seized. Called my wife with our other car and pulled Moose home.

She's been sitting for a month while i get settled into a new position at work and lick my wounds.

I'm not going to lie, I'm incredibly discouraged to have to redo all the work again not to mention buying all the parts again. I also have a good amount of apprehension about my ability to do the job right.
My son keeps encouraging me to get her going so he can drive her to school next year. I had just started to teach him and my daughters to drive a car, and a manual to boot.

A good part of me just wants to throw in the towel, sell Moose, and buy a truck.


sometimes it just pays to cover it up for a while and come back to it when the motivation comes back. I know its discouraging . I've been there for sure. it took 14 years to get my fastback back on the road... hang in there bro!
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lawn ninja
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: 1969 squareback "Moose" Reply with quote

Hoffman wrote:
I didn't forget about this post. Covid and work really cut into all my time for a few months and my wife developed a very serious medical condition that put working on the car out of the picture for about 6 months

I made good progress, but lost all the photos. Long story short, I did something wrong and on the first trip out, the engine seized up after about a mile. No ETA for an autopsy

Long version:

I got the pan welded in, not perfect, but strong and serviceable. I struggled for a long time with the EFI. I went back and forth reading the sticky and other threads. I finally got it running, but still a little rough.

I found a few places that the seals were pretty gone and oil was leaking out so I decided to rebuild the engine. I got new heads, pistons, jugs, hardware, and seals. I found the old heads had cracks between the valve ports, so good thing I bought the new ones. I followed the Bentley and an acvw rebuild book. I didn't go in depth on the tear-down/rebuild because I needed a working car in a short amount of time.

I eventually got it all back together and could not get it started. I ran through every thing again and the EFI troubleshooting. I ran out of time, bought dual carbs, weber ICT. While I waited for them to show up, I converted to an alternator and pulled all the EFI stuff and boxed it up.

When the carbs arrived I drilled the manifolds, put them all together, installed the new low pressure electric fuel pump and fired it up no problem. I set the carbs and got everything good to go...
First drive around the block I made it four blocks before I heard a noise from the back and lost oil pressure. I pulled over just as the car shuddered died. I went back and tried to move the fan with a pry bar and it was stuck, but good. Totally seized. Called my wife with our other car and pulled Moose home.

She's been sitting for a month while i get settled into a new position at work and lick my wounds.

I'm not going to lie, I'm incredibly discouraged to have to redo all the work again not to mention buying all the parts again. I also have a good amount of apprehension about my ability to do the job right.
My son keeps encouraging me to get her going so he can drive her to school next year. I had just started to teach him and my daughters to drive a car, and a manual to boot.

A good part of me just wants to throw in the towel, sell Moose, and buy a truck.


Don't get too discouraged man. It takes this to figure out what not to do next time. You'll see in my signature my 58. That car took me 12 years to build. Life kept kicking me in the face and I just did what I could when I could. Right when I had it all together, I started the motor for the first time to do the break-in. And about 30 minutes in the motor seized. because the guy who built it used a double nut on the oil pump pickup. It worked it self off and got sucked somehow right up into the pump. It was a 1914cc I bought to try and save time and money, in the end I paid more than twice and built the motor myself so I knew it got done right.

Take that motor apart, piece by piece, figure out what and how the seizure happened. It will teach you a lot. Then post pics, there are lots of guys who have lots of time building both these cars and VW's in general. Most of them are super helpful and like passing knowledge on. Most likely you won't have to rebuy all the motor parts.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 1969 squareback "Moose" Reply with quote

lawn ninja wrote:
Hoffman wrote:
I didn't forget about this post. Covid and work really cut into all my time for a few months and my wife developed a very serious medical condition that put working on the car out of the picture for about 6 months

I made good progress, but lost all the photos. Long story short, I did something wrong and on the first trip out, the engine seized up after about a mile. No ETA for an autopsy

Long version:

I got the pan welded in, not perfect, but strong and serviceable. I struggled for a long time with the EFI. I went back and forth reading the sticky and other threads. I finally got it running, but still a little rough.

I found a few places that the seals were pretty gone and oil was leaking out so I decided to rebuild the engine. I got new heads, pistons, jugs, hardware, and seals. I found the old heads had cracks between the valve ports, so good thing I bought the new ones. I followed the Bentley and an acvw rebuild book. I didn't go in depth on the tear-down/rebuild because I needed a working car in a short amount of time.

I eventually got it all back together and could not get it started. I ran through every thing again and the EFI troubleshooting. I ran out of time, bought dual carbs, weber ICT. While I waited for them to show up, I converted to an alternator and pulled all the EFI stuff and boxed it up.

When the carbs arrived I drilled the manifolds, put them all together, installed the new low pressure electric fuel pump and fired it up no problem. I set the carbs and got everything good to go...
First drive around the block I made it four blocks before I heard a noise from the back and lost oil pressure. I pulled over just as the car shuddered died. I went back and tried to move the fan with a pry bar and it was stuck, but good. Totally seized. Called my wife with our other car and pulled Moose home.

She's been sitting for a month while i get settled into a new position at work and lick my wounds.

I'm not going to lie, I'm incredibly discouraged to have to redo all the work again not to mention buying all the parts again. I also have a good amount of apprehension about my ability to do the job right.
My son keeps encouraging me to get her going so he can drive her to school next year. I had just started to teach him and my daughters to drive a car, and a manual to boot.

A good part of me just wants to throw in the towel, sell Moose, and buy a truck.


Don't get too discouraged man. It takes this to figure out what not to do next time. You'll see in my signature my 58. That car took me 12 years to build. Life kept kicking me in the face and I just did what I could when I could. Right when I had it all together, I started the motor for the first time to do the break-in. And about 30 minutes in the motor seized. because the guy who built it used a double nut on the oil pump pickup. It worked it self off and got sucked somehow right up into the pump. It was a 1914cc I bought to try and save time and money, in the end I paid more than twice and built the motor myself so I knew it got done right.

Take that motor apart, piece by piece, figure out what and how the seizure happened. It will teach you a lot. Then post pics, there are lots of guys who have lots of time building both these cars and VW's in general. Most of them are super helpful and like passing knowledge on. Most likely you won't have to rebuy all the motor parts.


Yup, agreed 100%. More than likely a bearing seized. I had that happen with my 64 T34, right after I had got most everything done (including a 20 minute break in). Number 1 bearing seized onto the crank. Starved of oil. It happens. Fortunately I was able to get the crank journals polished, and new bearings ordered, so I could put it back together again. I showed all the pics of it getting put back together too, complete with using a plastic milk crate as my engine stand. Just look thru my 64 T-34 build.

Like Lawn Ninja said don't get discouraged. You might just need to take a break from it all. Back in the 80's I took a 4 year break from VW's and played with GM's. Then I got back into VW's and have been into them since. Don't get me wrong, I still have a couple of Chevy's and a Toyota (winter car), but I still have my Notch, and my wife's Fastback to take care of.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: 1969 squareback "Moose" Reply with quote

Welcome to the club!
It's rare that a first build goes 100% right.

Especially with bearings nowadays,
I'd bet it just needs bearings.

Now that you have done it once, the next time will go many times faster.
You should be able to have it out and apart in an afternoon.

Get it apart,
Clean the pieces up,
Take some pics and post them up.

Once you order what you think you need,
I'm only a couple hours away in Santa Cruz.
I can give you a second set of eyes in assembling the motor itself if you can get it here clean.
Have all of the tools and spares and machine shop connections and..

If it's all there,
A stocker can go together in a day.
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Time to change your expectations.
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