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philej
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2012
Posts: 53
Location: Philadelphia
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 Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 3:51 am Post subject: Engine blown after sitting for 5 months?? |
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So last summer we didn't do a lot trips in my 1988 Westy and when fall hit we did no trips. Sometime in September '20 I pulled it into my back yard ( field?) and my friends would use it as a tent to to stay over when we had fires and such back there. It was running great at the time. I can't remember why but one day I was idling it trying to charge the battery and I forgot... for ~2 hours. When I came back the battery was fine but the engine wouldn't catch. It would turn and turn but never actually start. I thought it was out of gas but it wasn't...
Here's where I make a dumb decision and decide this is a perfectly nice tent and I'll just leave the van in the field and deal with it in the spring... It has music, lights and power, it really makes a nice accessory to the fire pit area. So the van sits there and I finally pull it out and have it towed to the mechanic in March.
My mechanic is no VW specialist but he's an old car guy and I've trusted him over the years to change the oil and fix the odd hose problem here and there. After he starts looking it at he tells me that apparently the field mice have had a field day eating my electrical and gas lines all winter. I need a new starter. There's no spark and he has to have an electrical guy over to figure that out. So this is a lot it seems to me but I believe the mice ate some wires (it's happened before at this house, in the driveway). Not sure how the starter goes after not being used for 5 months but OK. I suspect the odd electrical issue is what happened in the first place?
Yesterday he finally got it running but now he tells me half the cylinders have a low PSI (70) and I need a new engine or to take this engine out and have it fixed. It's definitely running rough but he couldn't tell me why this would have happened. The engine was new 6 years ago and only has ~50K miles. It was working great when I parked it in the field. Is this story in any way plausible that the engine is now blown from sitting for 5 months?
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1988 Westy for shows, festivals and camping. Also works great for taking the bikes to theshop! |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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philej
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2012
Posts: 53
Location: Philadelphia
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:30 am Post subject: Re: The engine in my tent is blown?? |
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Thank you for a clear and concise explanation of what is going on with the engine.
So the risk is the rust messes up the pistons or something and the engine never quite recovers from it's vacation in the field?
I can live with all that. I'm going to drive it to the North East Kingdom in a couple weeks. That should sort all of this out I guess.
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1988 Westy for shows, festivals and camping. Also works great for taking the bikes to theshop! |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:55 am Post subject: Re: The engine in my tent is blown?? |
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As said, an open valve allows moisture into a cylinder.
There will always be valves open on an engine. How many depends on the engine design.
Winter storing a vehicle/ boat it is a good idea to remove the spark plugs and spray a "Fogging Oil" into the cylinders to coat the walls of the cylinder to prevent the rust. It is an oil mist that sticks to the walls of the cylinder.
Areas with more humidity require it more then say, New Mexico. If you live near a beach spray the whole car inside and out because the salt is in the air. I bought a Westy for parts in Daytona, Florida parked a block away from the beach. The side of it facing the ocean was considerably more rusted then the land side.
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philej
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2012
Posts: 53
Location: Philadelphia
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 6:01 am Post subject: Re: The engine in my tent is blown?? |
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Yep I get how the rust formed - I'm just curious what effect the rust may or may not have on the operation of the engine (other than the obvious fact rust isn't supposed to be in the engine). Is it just dependent on how much rust formed ? If it wasn't too much the engine will work it out, if it was a lot, she won't ever be the same?
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1988 Westy for shows, festivals and camping. Also works great for taking the bikes to theshop! |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16501
Location: Brookeville, MD
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16859
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 6:26 am Post subject: Re: The engine in my tent is blown?? |
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first off mice make a mess of things in short order. from time to time i'll buy a ton, ton and a 1/2 of rat chow and spread it on the edge of the fields with a manure spreader.
your engine is probably running like shit because the lifters bled down. they will eventually come back to life.
if you parked this in a field or on dirt it's about the worse thing you can do. as moisture evaporates from the ground it hit the bottom of the van and basically sweats. it essentially is like your bathroom after a hot shower and it has pretty much rained under the van since you parked it there.
that moisture wicks into things...like starters and you probably have corrosion issues like mad going on under there.
sounds like you're going to be in for a reasonably expensive rehab here as parking it the way you did was about the absolute worst thing you could do to a car
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philej
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2012
Posts: 53
Location: Philadelphia
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:01 am Post subject: Re: The engine in my tent is blown?? |
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Sigh. Good thing I love my van more than I love money.
Thank you for educating me.
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dobryan
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50336
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Engine blown after sitting for 5 months?? |
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| Idling a van to charge the battery is in general not a good thing to do. An idling engine takes a long time to warm up and is building up moisture in the oil until the oil reaches 160° or so. Running one of these engines for only a short time will also lead to the lifters leaking down rapidly as the lifters do not function well with cold thick oil. If you are going to let a vehicle sit for the winter it is way better to just pull the battery and let it sit than firing it up from time to time "just because". Most anything you hear otherwise dates from old wives' tale for pre WWII vehicles, and running them from time to time probably didn't actually do them any good either. |
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17112
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Engine blown after sitting for 5 months?? |
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A battery tender is a good solution along with some Sta-Bil in the tank. The problem is often the van just gets parked and time gets away from us. I agree with not just letting it idle to charge the battery. Its probably reasonable to disconnect the ground cable from the battery when it is sitting for an extended period of time with no charger.
Not much you can do now. I'd just go ahead and drive it. Maybe an oil and filter change after a couple hundred miles. As long as coolant wasn't sitting in the cylinders, the surface rust from one season is probably not worth loosing sleep over.
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Steve M.
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Joined: July 30, 2013
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Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Engine blown after sitting for 5 months?? |
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Just because I happened to see this today.
Rust inside a cylinder. You can see how big a space a valve has when in the open position.
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DanHoug
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: The engine in my tent is blown?? |
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| philej wrote: |
| Yep I get how the rust formed - I'm just curious what effect the rust may or may not have on the operation of the engine (other than the obvious fact rust isn't supposed to be in the engine). Is it just dependent on how much rust formed ? If it wasn't too much the engine will work it out, if it was a lot, she won't ever be the same? |
just start driving it with Rislone/Marvel Mystery oil etc in the crankcase oil. don't overfill but run a quart in it. engines are actually pretty tolerant to a little surface rust in the cyl but more likely, your piston rings have become gummed up. as someone else said, there's nothing to lose by driving it so do a fresh oil change, put a quart of magic joo in place of a quart of oil and see where you end up. take a 100 mile round trip to get it good and hot with circulating oil in the ring grooves. if that doesn't do it, take another one. nothing to lose.
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'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22639
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 4:12 am Post subject: Re: Engine blown after sitting for 5 months?? |
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They won’t rust up in 5 months in the northeast, I’ve let many an engine sit for that. I don’t even fog my outboards any more, from November to April
Lifters will bleed , though. Get some marvel and fire her up with some ether to help
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dobryan
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philej
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2012
Posts: 53
Location: Philadelphia
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Engine blown after sitting for 5 months?? |
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At this point my mechanic can't even get it started. I'm sure he quit trying though. I'm going to have to ship it up to my new house in VT and try to do the resuscitation myself.
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Captain Pike
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Engine blown after sitting for 5 months?? |
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PM sent
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