Author |
Message |
turbotype1 Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2005 Posts: 580 Location: seacoast
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:52 am Post subject: Diesel swap recommendations? |
|
|
I've got an 83 single cab with a 1.6 NA and a 5 speed. Thing runs great(well as best as it can ) around town, but top speed on the highway is pathetic. I want to swap to a TD ,but keep it simple without electronics. I can swap out the ring & pinion to a 4.56 to help the top speed, but am gonna need a motor that can pull it.
I have a 1.6TD out of a Quantum with all the manifolds I need ,but it is missing the IP.
I have been searching everywhere, but get more confused than anything...
My question is, will the 1.6 TD be enough, or should I find a 1.9 and if a 1.9, which one?
Oh FYI, my tire size is 205/65/16...
Thanks....Pete _________________
117harv wrote: |
This new fad of get it the lowest, or run it with the worst looks, (patina) isn't cool, it's for the hey everyone look at me crowd, i'm driving a beat down ratty, unsafe, VW, how cool am I ???...your not....
|
Pissing off the purists since 1997
Wanted: Boyd Motors plate frame
57 Turbo Oval Sliding rag
67 13 window delux walk-thru- now 21
64 all original for the misses
83 Sinka m-TDI diesel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations ? |
|
|
If you are going through the firedrill, I would not waste my time with a 1.6 TD for a vanagon unless it is sitting in your garage already. A 1.9 TDI fitted with a mechanical pump would be a nice overall improvement over the 1.6 TD. They can be retrofitted with a strictly mechanical pump.
I'm running an 1.9 ALH which was sort of the second generation TDI. It requires some fabrication or a kit to install. The first generation TDI is more of a bolt up solution. I'm sure others will post advice. Our 82 has no problem keeping up with traffic or climbing mountain passes. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15129 Location: Syracuse, NY
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations ? |
|
|
my old 1.6TD with air cooled transaxle had no problems keeping up with traffic or mountain/hills on the eastern seaboard.
I did have to change to the smaller K14 turbo else I wouldn't be able to rebuild boost if I lost it in the middle of a long pull.
once I had the K14 it was just fine and traveled a few times NY to FL w/o drama.. well besides a tendency to shake out exhaust nuts & bolts.
I'm sure it would have benefitted from an intercooler as well.
just adding that there is nothing inherently wrong with the 1.6TD if it's dialed in for the van.. boost sensitive pump, taller R&P and smaller turbo.
the K14 was sold on the jetta Eco Diesels. and the european TD vanagons.
not sure what else. _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
ZsZ Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010 Posts: 1642 Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations ? |
|
|
a good 1.6TD is better than a bad 1.9D or TD so it depends on the donor engine _________________ Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations ? |
|
|
Since you have a single cab the options open up for various engine configurations. The added engine compartment height allows for engines to be fitted upright vs laying over at 50 degrees. My van has an ALH with manual pump which sits upright (@15 degrees) and would be a perfect fit in a Sinka. I wouldn't bother with the older indirect injected diesels given how many newer TDIs are available. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations ? |
|
|
The 1.6TD is a reasonable choice but given the other options now available it is not what I would go with.
A Mk3 TDI engine (1Z, AHU, AFN) with a properly built mTDI injection pump is IMO the best bang for buck as far as installation difficulty vs. performance especially on an '83. There are some installation challenges, but it is 95% bolt-in. The fuel economy is actually better than the non turbo 1.6 (or 1.6TD or AAZ), properly set up the reliability is better, and the performance is also much better. The wiring is the same.
IMO the stock 5-speed should get an R+P swap to the 4.14 for excellent gearing. The 4.57 R+P is also a decent choice, but IMO the 4.14 is a better choice with the TDI and DX 5-speed gearing. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1491 Location: pnw
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations ? |
|
|
Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Since you have a single cab the options open up for various engine configurations. The added engine compartment height allows for engines to be fitted upright vs laying over at 50 degrees. My van has an ALH with manual pump which sits upright (@15 degrees) and would be a perfect fit in a Sinka. I wouldn't bother with the older indirect injected diesels given how many newer TDIs are available. |
^^ this _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gnarlodious Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013 Posts: 2312 Location: Adobe Jungle USA
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations? |
|
|
Probably a toss-up, but anything is better than stock. If you are at sea level, as your username suggests, the 1.6TD can be good upgrade. If you plan to climb into higher elevations it can lose power in thin air, and a 1.9 would be a better option. I have the 4.57 R&P and the AAZ pulls nicely up to 70MPH at high elevations, but I doubt the 1.6TD could do it. My personal opinion is that for the amount of work you’ll do, putting in a questionable engine is asking for trouble, and finding a used injection pump for it that will work is a chore. You may eventually wish you held out for a more modern mechanical engine like AAZ. _________________ Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit |
|
Back to top |
|
|
turbotype1 Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2005 Posts: 580 Location: seacoast
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations ? |
|
|
?Waldo? wrote: |
A Mk3 TDI engine (1Z, AHU, AFN) with a properly built mTDI injection pump is IMO the best bang for buck as far as installation difficulty vs. performance especially on an '83. There are some installation challenges, but it is 95% bolt-in.
|
Waldo, What are the 5% that is not Bolt on? Do these engines use the same mounts and oil sump? Also where would be a good source for a pump? _________________
117harv wrote: |
This new fad of get it the lowest, or run it with the worst looks, (patina) isn't cool, it's for the hey everyone look at me crowd, i'm driving a beat down ratty, unsafe, VW, how cool am I ???...your not....
|
Pissing off the purists since 1997
Wanted: Boyd Motors plate frame
57 Turbo Oval Sliding rag
67 13 window delux walk-thru- now 21
64 all original for the misses
83 Sinka m-TDI diesel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
turbotype1 Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2005 Posts: 580 Location: seacoast
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations? |
|
|
Gnarlodious wrote: |
My personal opinion is that for the amount of work you’ll do, putting in a questionable engine is asking for trouble. |
I guess I forgot to mention.... Whichever motor I decide on will be considered a core and will be rebuilt before installing. This truck is currently my daily driver/shop truck so reliability needs to be #1
Thanks for the help...Pete _________________
117harv wrote: |
This new fad of get it the lowest, or run it with the worst looks, (patina) isn't cool, it's for the hey everyone look at me crowd, i'm driving a beat down ratty, unsafe, VW, how cool am I ???...your not....
|
Pissing off the purists since 1997
Wanted: Boyd Motors plate frame
57 Turbo Oval Sliding rag
67 13 window delux walk-thru- now 21
64 all original for the misses
83 Sinka m-TDI diesel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations? |
|
|
Some of the issues you would face depend on what parts you use, but if going from a non-turbo, you will need to deal with intake and custom exhaust. You would also need to do a minor modification to the engine lid:
Which turbo and manifold setup you use affects whether or not custom work is required.
There are also quite a few not strictly necessary things that fit under the "might want to" category and can add to the custom work, e.g. intercooler, aux oil to air cooler, gauges etc... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations? |
|
|
...and yes, the Mk3 TDI engines (1Z, AHU, AFN) can use all the stock diesel mounting parts (mounting brackets, mounts, carrier bars, sump, bell housing, etc...) and coolant hoses.
For a quality pump, I would recommend contacting Karl Mullendore at WestyVentures.
I would recommend against getting a pump from Hans or Quality German. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
0cean Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2012 Posts: 1149 Location: California
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
turbotype1 Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2005 Posts: 580 Location: seacoast
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations? |
|
|
0cean wrote: |
Wouldn't want old tech in my van for the price that's going to be spent. Zero mile engine with plenty of parts available now and in the future. Give Greg a call.
https://www.boxeer.com/ |
That's getting into something I don't want.... keeping it simple !! My truck is as basic as it gets, I want to keep it that way.
Thanks for your input tho... _________________
117harv wrote: |
This new fad of get it the lowest, or run it with the worst looks, (patina) isn't cool, it's for the hey everyone look at me crowd, i'm driving a beat down ratty, unsafe, VW, how cool am I ???...your not....
|
Pissing off the purists since 1997
Wanted: Boyd Motors plate frame
57 Turbo Oval Sliding rag
67 13 window delux walk-thru- now 21
64 all original for the misses
83 Sinka m-TDI diesel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations? |
|
|
Be sure to read up on transmission mods to keep your gear box from imploding. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
0cean Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2012 Posts: 1149 Location: California
|
Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations? |
|
|
turbotype1 wrote: |
0cean wrote: |
Wouldn't want old tech in my van for the price that's going to be spent. Zero mile engine with plenty of parts available now and in the future. Give Greg a call.
https://www.boxeer.com/ |
That's getting into something I don't want.... keeping it simple !! My truck is as basic as it gets, I want to keep it that way.
Thanks for your input tho... |
I can understand wanting to keep it simple, yet you are completely upgrading an engine from different era, so your already down the rabbit hole. Which hole will it be, on the left we have old used tech. On the right unused new tech. LOL...
To each his own, i just hope it all works for out in the end for some happy camping. Good luck and post about it. _________________ I'm not a mechanic, I just play one on the internet
Cluster Rebuild:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569920&highlight=
Left for Dead the Resurrection Story Build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=613669
(Number of Different Donor VW Vans Body Parts Used: 12)
(Number of completely different vehicles parts used: 3) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
westyventures Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004 Posts: 2305 Location: Oregon Outback
|
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations? |
|
|
'old tech' mTDI works great, far simpler - and gives back better mpg than the CR option - which has it's own drawbacks. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
|
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations? |
|
|
Now that all the post swap teething pains have been sorted, I'm really happy with my mTDI setup. It's super reliable and the power delivery is amazing. The way it effortlessly pulls inclines always makes me smile. My only slight twinge of regret for going manual is that it won't be easy for me to integrate the Mk4 cluster from the donor, but that's a me issue and nothing inherently negative about the engine management. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations? |
|
|
The other side of the coin, I've been extremely satisfied with the flybywire setup on our 82. At first I was anxious about adding the electronics and how reliable they'd end up being. I don't even think about it anymore and the free cruise control is nice.
The only problem I had after quite a few years and miles, was at some point the engine would just quit. Usually after a few hours. Cycling the key it always restarted. I checked everything related to the ECU harness. I finally caught it messing up a block from the shop.
It ended up being the fuel cut off valve that was laying down. Same part all the pumps run. Cycling the key must have "juiced" it. So, it wasn't the ECU system even though I was ready to blame it. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1491 Location: pnw
|
Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Diesel swap recommendations? |
|
|
MarkWard wrote: |
It ended up being the fuel cut off valve that was laying down. Same part all the pumps run. Cycling the key must have "juiced" it. So, it wasn't the ECU system even though I was ready to blame it. |
i had this exact issue on our 1.9D (all mechanical) a couple years ago. would cut out after running for 5-10 minutes then take quite a while of sitting around before it would restart. the solenoid seemed to be failing after warming up due to being on. replacing it was an easy enough fix, who knows how old it was.
goes to show anything can break _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|