Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Auto Trans leak
Page: Previous  1, 2
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
physast
Samba Member


Joined: December 30, 2005
Posts: 675
Location: DC
physast is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

AFT level solved!

I think I interpreted 'cold' meaning engine off after a nights rest. I think cold actually means engine on and run through gears after a nights rest. So as MarkWard said I was "chasing my tail"

Instead I just filled to between the dots while hot and I am going to call it a day.

Thank you for all the help. Now I will clean the area around the trans linkage and see where the leak is coming from.
_________________
1967 L633 VW beetle (currently being restored...slowly)
1991 Orly Blue Vanaru 2.5L
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kourt
Samba Member


Joined: August 13, 2013
Posts: 1922
Location: Austin, TX
kourt is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

In VW ATF measuring, "cold" means engine off and sitting overnight. 20 degrees C or 68 degrees F. Truly cold. The crosshatched bottom 2mm of the ATF dipstick is the "cold" ATF level marker.

It's still not a reliable measure, however, because of drainback issues. So many vans have had their ATF cooling systems changed, that measuring hot is the only way to get a reliable value.

The two round dots on the ATF dipstick are for hot measures. I always do my hot ATF measures/fills to the lower dot. On really hot, hard driving days, the ATF volume will expand to meet the upper dot.

kourt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
brickster
Samba Member


Joined: January 05, 2004
Posts: 503
Location: CO, USA
brickster is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

kourt wrote:
In VW ATF measuring, "cold" means engine off and sitting overnight. 20 degrees C or 68 degrees F. Truly cold. The crosshatched bottom 2mm of the ATF dipstick is the "cold" ATF level marker.

It's still not a reliable measure, however, because of drainback issues. So many vans have had their ATF cooling systems changed, that measuring hot is the only way to get a reliable value.

The two round dots on the ATF dipstick are for hot measures. I always do my hot ATF measures/fills to the lower dot. On really hot, hard driving days, the ATF volume will expand to meet the upper dot.

kourt


Good information, thanks! And the amount of fluid to get you from lower to upper hole is pretty small, correct?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50257

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

kourt wrote:
In VW ATF measuring, "cold" means engine off and sitting overnight. 20 degrees C or 68 degrees F. Truly cold. The crosshatched bottom 2mm of the ATF dipstick is the "cold" ATF level marker.t


I don't think I have ever seen or heard this anywhere before, do you have a source. It certainly contradicts the idea of starting the engine and running the transmission through the gears before checking the level.

Also as far as I can tell it is 100% okay according to VW for the level to be at the upper mark when the ATF temperature is 60°C. From the 1983 Owner's Manual:

"The ATF should be checked when it is warm, with the engine idling, the selector lever in Neutral and the parking brake applied."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kourt
Samba Member


Joined: August 13, 2013
Posts: 1922
Location: Austin, TX
kourt is offline 

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 3:59 am    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:

I don't think I have ever seen or heard this anywhere before, do you have a source. It certainly contradicts the idea of starting the engine and running the transmission through the gears before checking the level.


Howdy Wildthings!

My post wasn't meant to validate any measuring of ATF while the engine is cold--doing that is truly "chasing your tail" as Mark says. I think we all agree one should always measure ATF after driving at least six miles, parking level, leaving the engine running, etc.

See the Bentley illustration below to note the crosshatching on the bottom of the newer Vanagon dipsticks. Perhaps the 1983 models do not have that feature. That hatching is there for one purpose: to measure ATF cold (20C/68F). When doing a complete transaxle reinstall, where ATF has been purged and you're refilling from empty, this measuring point is very useful.

Wildthings wrote:
Also as far as I can tell it is 100% okay according to VW for the level to be at the upper mark when the ATF temperature is 60°C.


I'm sure it is, but the Bentley also has something to say about that:

"--check ATF level and top up to lower mark if necessary"

and this:

"warm up to operating temperature and fill to between marks"

Bentley never instructs to fill to the upper mark. You might notice that the difference between Low and High on the newer dipsticks is a smaller amount than on the old dipsticks (0.23L vs 0.33L), indicating there is less margin for error. In my experience, filling to the upper mark leaves no margin for additional ATF expansion when the transaxle is really hot--that's all I meant by my comment.

kourt

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
brickster
Samba Member


Joined: January 05, 2004
Posts: 503
Location: CO, USA
brickster is offline 

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

I can confirm that the dipstick on my 1984 does not have the crosshatching.

I noticed that my dipstick label says to check level in neutral (as does the photo above!) yet Bentley says check in park. Would there be a big difference between them?

If I drain the transmission, approximately how much fluid would get me near the bottom hole?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17009
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 5:21 am    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

Park, neutral, in gear, shouldn’t make a difference. I believe it’s more of a safety concern. You could do a comparison test and report your findings. Make sure your hand brake works if your alone.
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32432
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

If you just pull the dipstick tube to drain, only 2-3 qts come out. Start refill with two and proceed from there.

The dipstick tube can be a bugger to retread!
Do not get impatient and cross thread it!!!!
A Very easy thing to do!
Several turns with your fingers BEFORE using a wrench!

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17009
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

Loosening the 6mm bolt at the bellhousing that connects the tube support makes it easier to not cross thread the tube into the pan.
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32432
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Loosening the 6mm bolt at the bellhousing that connects the tube support makes it easier to not cross thread the tube into the pan.


10mm head, It is so easy to reach, I just take it out completely until the tube is well on its way to finger tight.

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17009
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
MarkWard wrote:
Loosening the 6mm bolt at the bellhousing that connects the tube support makes it easier to not cross thread the tube into the pan.


10mm head, It is so easy to reach, I just take it out completely until the tube is well on its way to finger tight.

Dave


I've been banned from using references to a 10mm wrench when discussing repairs. Wink
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
brickster
Samba Member


Joined: January 05, 2004
Posts: 503
Location: CO, USA
brickster is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

Awesome information, thanks! I will compare N & P and report back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17009
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

I’ll add this bit of trivia. I recently installed a rebuilt automatic with a GW finned external cooler. It took a total of 6 qts for a completely empty auto. I believe the amount listed in the manual is for a service, not a rebuild with new torque converter.
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
brickster
Samba Member


Joined: January 05, 2004
Posts: 503
Location: CO, USA
brickster is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
I’ll add this bit of trivia. I recently installed a rebuilt automatic with a GW finned external cooler. It took a total of 6 qts for a completely empty auto. I believe the amount listed in the manual is for a service, not a rebuild with new torque converter.


I will actually be installing the same cooler when I change the fluid. Instructions say that it adds approximately 1.5 pints to the system.

https://www.gowesty.com/files/GVW-AT-COOLER-REV-50.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17009
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

brickster wrote:
MarkWard wrote:
I’ll add this bit of trivia. I recently installed a rebuilt automatic with a GW finned external cooler. It took a total of 6 qts for a completely empty auto. I believe the amount listed in the manual is for a service, not a rebuild with new torque converter.


I will actually be installing the same cooler when I change the fluid. Instructions say that it adds approximately 1.5 pints to the system.

https://www.gowesty.com/files/GVW-AT-COOLER-REV-50.pdf


You will have fluid remaining if you are just dropping the pan and adding a cooler. I would start with 3 qts and add from there. The GW thermostat bypasses ATF till it opens, so you will likely get the level correct, go out and drive it and it will be low again. Just don't overfill. I was surprised the factory manual did not have a dry fill amount listed.
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22568
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
djkeev wrote:
MarkWard wrote:
Loosening the 6mm bolt at the bellhousing that connects the tube support makes it easier to not cross thread the tube into the pan.


10mm head, It is so easy to reach, I just take it out completely until the tube is well on its way to finger tight.

Dave


I've been banned from using references to a 10mm wrench when discussing repairs. Wink


And yet you just can’t stop....

Laughing Laughing Wink
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17009
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
MarkWard wrote:
djkeev wrote:
MarkWard wrote:
Loosening the 6mm bolt at the bellhousing that connects the tube support makes it easier to not cross thread the tube into the pan.


10mm head, It is so easy to reach, I just take it out completely until the tube is well on its way to finger tight.

Dave


I've been banned from using references to a 10mm wrench when discussing repairs. Wink


And yet you just can’t stop....


Laughing Laughing Wink



I was trolling. Wink
_________________
☮️
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
brickster
Samba Member


Joined: January 05, 2004
Posts: 503
Location: CO, USA
brickster is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto Trans leak Reply with quote

brickster wrote:
Awesome information, thanks! I will compare N & P and report back.


And my results were….<drum roll>…no difference!

I did discover that I’m overfilled (van is new to me) slightly. Planning on changing fluid soon.

Would someone please measure their later dipstick cold line distance from the end? I’d like to mark mine (assuming they’re the same length?).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.