Shorten stretched brake cable?

[bluebus86]

[bnam]

I have this problem with the cable ends protruding thru the rubber cover of the handle. I had some good German spare cables and so I thought I'd swap out.

But, when I removed the right side cable (it was in good condition), I found it to be the exact same length as the new one. The dia of the new cable was in fact a bit smaller (2.8mm dia) vs. the old one (3.2mm dia).

My rear brake drum (original with 115K km) are at 231mm dia which is under the wear limit of 231.5. Pads were replaced not too long ago.

So, the lengthening of the cable could be attributable to the slightly larger drum size due to wear and perhaps the geometry of the new pads being slightly off?
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[baldessariclan]

[bnam]

I plan to try out that idea next. this issue is definitely not cable stretch. The new German cables I had were the same length. To get the brake set close to Bentley spec I am at the bottom of the adjustment. there was a couple of mm of gap at the spreader bar.

Will see if zi can fix it with ur approach. thanks!
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[baldessariclan]

[bnam]

Instead of grinding the brake shoe, how about putting an insert into the slot on the spreader bar to take up the gap?

Say a 1mm strip of metal that is the width of the slot and bent into a U so that it does not fall off.
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[baldessariclan]

[68IHscout]

If i had read this thread before rebuilding my rear brakes i wouldn't have the too long e brake syndrome

[badufay]

Bringing this back to life... I am running into the same issue on my 76 Bus. The parking brake spreader is still very loose and can't adjust anymore. I've replaced the wheel cylinder (ATE), the shoes (ATE), the hardware, the cables, new drums, that measure to spec, and the parking brake spreader and arm (all aftermarket, but when compared with OE, they're the exact same.

I was thinking along the same lines as reducing the size of the notch in the spreader, but don't want to introduce the opportunity for the weld to break off or wear down quickly. I was thinking about fabricating a new spreader bar. Basically just notched steel slightly longer than the original. Do you guys think making a slightly longer spreader or shaving down the metal part of the shoe where it connects would be better?

Thanks,
Ben
_________________
Current: 1976 VW Bus, 3 spd auto 2.0L FI; 2017 GTI S, 6 spd man; 2017 Jetta SE TSI, 5 spd man; 2006 Golf GL 2.0L, auto
Previous: 2015 Golf S TDI, 6 spd man; 2015 Jetta SE TDI, 6 spd man; 12 Jetta 2.5L, 04 Jetta 2.0L, 02 Golf 2.0L, 98 Jetta 2.0L, 98 Golf 2.0L, 98 Cabrio 2.0L, 95 Golf 2.0L, 87 golf GTI 16 valve 1.8L, 86 Cabriolet 1.6L, 80 Audi 4000 1.6L, 76 Audi Fox 1.6L, 76 VW Beetle 1.6L, 74 Audi Fox 1.5L, 69 VW Beetle 1.5L

[67rustavenger]

[67rustavenger]

[vamram]

I just had this issue w/new emergency/parking brake cables on my '73 Super. I replaced the cables and they were basically too long so that tightened all the way they still would not hold. I picked up a couple of 1/2" barrel washers to put between the adjusting nuts and hold down plate at the handle and was able to adjust them. I may end up doing a similar adjustment at the back where the cable sleeve goes into the tunnel since even w/the sleeve I'm limited in how much I'll be able to adjust it upfront.
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!

[badufay]

That’s a great idea about the washers. I’ll give that a try tomorrow.
Thanks,
Ben
_________________
Current: 1976 VW Bus, 3 spd auto 2.0L FI; 2017 GTI S, 6 spd man; 2017 Jetta SE TSI, 5 spd man; 2006 Golf GL 2.0L, auto
Previous: 2015 Golf S TDI, 6 spd man; 2015 Jetta SE TDI, 6 spd man; 12 Jetta 2.5L, 04 Jetta 2.0L, 02 Golf 2.0L, 98 Jetta 2.0L, 98 Golf 2.0L, 98 Cabrio 2.0L, 95 Golf 2.0L, 87 golf GTI 16 valve 1.8L, 86 Cabriolet 1.6L, 80 Audi 4000 1.6L, 76 Audi Fox 1.6L, 76 VW Beetle 1.6L, 74 Audi Fox 1.5L, 69 VW Beetle 1.5L

[MTT3107]

This is all greatinfo here..
I have the same issue on my bug.
New brake shoes, new drums, new brake cylinders, new backplate and adjusters, and new cables, and have to turn the adjustment nuts at the handle almost all the way down to get proper parking brake action.

And still have to pull the handle quite a ways up for that.

[bnam]

I did a 450mi round trip drive in my beetle to attend a vintage car event. A few days before I left I replaced the rear drums with new German Zimmerman drums.

Prior to this (and as posted above a couple of years ago) my new cables poked out a lot and were nearly at the bottom of the adjustment.

I should have searched for this thread and checked out the spreader bar gap. I didn’t. But will do that one of these days.


But here’re my observations from setting up the rear brakes. The length of the threaded protrusion of the cables is very sensitive to
1. Brake shoe clearance to the drum
2. Number of clicks for full lock. Factory says 3 clicks of the parking brake but that will require the nuts to be tightened further down. I settled for 5-6 clicks.

I initially set the shoes with the factory method of tightening to a slight drag and then loosening 3-4 clicks. But that did not give very precise results and resulted in right brake locking up before left when parking brake was pulled - to fix which I would have to tighten the left side cable more than the right. Didn’t want to do that.

So I left the cables with roughly equal length protrusion, pulled up the parking brake to 3 clicks. The right side was not locked but had considerable drag. The left side was freer. I then adjusted the star adjusters on the left side brake until I had the same level of drag as the right side. I then pulled to 5 clicks and confirmed that both sides were locked and then released the brake and confirmed both sides were free. I drove to the event with this setting. The threaded ends still poke out thru the torn boot, but they may fit under a new one.

Today after returning I checked out the setup again. I first removed the locknuts and measure each threaded end for length of protrusion. The left side cable was protruding 1.5 mm more than the right side. I adjusted till it matched the shorter side. Then I went to the shoes , removed the rubber caps and checked the clearance with a feeler gauge. Each show had a slightly different gap. The closest was 0.013”. So I used the feeler gauge to set the other 3 shoes also to the same setting so they were all evenly spaced.

Checked that the wheels rotated freely. The parking brake now engages a bit early. I like have reduced the protrusion further by losseningbthe nuts and returning the brake to full lock at 5-6 clicks rather than 4-5 but I didn’t have time.

I also wanted to do some research on using clearance gauges for setting the shoes rather than the factory suggested method. Clearance gauge method is used in other cars I have so can’t be completely wrong.

I’d now like to find out how tight I could go on the clearance. The tighter it get, the faster the brake response and shorter the cable protrusion. As long as the brakes don’t drag or heat up, I don’t see/ know the downsides. So need to do some more reading and experimentation.

Byas
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[bnam]

I did a 450mi round trip drive in my beetle to attend a vintage car event. A few days before I left I replaced the rear drums with new German Zimmerman drums.

Prior to this (and as posted above a couple of years ago) my new cables poked out a lot and were nearly at the bottom of the adjustment.

I should have searched for this thread and checked out the spreader bar gap. I didn’t. But will do that one of these days.


But here’re my observations from setting up the rear brakes. The length of the threaded protrusion of the cables is very sensitive to
1. Brake shoe clearance to the drum
2. Number of clicks for full lock. Factory says 3 clicks of the parking brake but that will require the nuts to be tightened further down. I settled for 5-6 clicks.

I initially set the shoes with the factory method of tightening to a slight drag and then loosening 3-4 clicks. But that did not give very precise results and resulted in right brake locking up before left when parking brake was pulled - to fix which I would have to tighten the left side cable more than the right. Didn’t want to do that.

So I left the cables with roughly equal length protrusion, pulled up the parking brake to 3 clicks. The right side was not locked but had considerable drag. The left side was freer. I then adjusted the star adjusters on the left side brake until I had the same level of drag as the right side. I then pulled to 5 clicks and confirmed that both sides were locked and then released the brake and confirmed both sides were free. I drove to the event with this setting. The threaded ends still poke out thru the torn boot, but they may fit under a new one.

Today after returning I checked out the setup again. I first removed the locknuts and measure each threaded end for length of protrusion. The left side cable was protruding 1.5 mm more than the right side. I adjusted till it matched the shorter side. Then I went to the shoes , removed the rubber caps and checked the clearance with a feeler gauge. Each show had a slightly different gap. The closest was 0.013”. So I used the feeler gauge to set the other 3 shoes also to the same setting so they were all evenly spaced.

Checked that the wheels rotated freely. The parking brake now engages a bit early. I like have reduced the protrusion further by losseningbthe nuts and returning the brake to full lock at 5-6 clicks rather than 4-5 but I didn’t have time.

I also wanted to do some research on using clearance gauges for setting the shoes rather than the factory suggested method. Clearance gauge method is used in other cars I have so can’t be completely wrong.

I’d now like to find out how tight I could go on the clearance. The tighter it get, the faster the brake response and shorter the cable protrusion. As long as the brakes don’t drag or heat up, I don’t see/ know the downsides. So need to do some more reading and experimentation.

Byas
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Cusser]

I know you adjusted the rear brakes manually and THEN went o to the parking brake adjustment, right?
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[bnam]