Oettinger JX boost

[ZsZ]

Hi there!
I have an m-tdi with a K14 turbo from an AAZ. The pump is a custom one made by modifying a Fiat Croma pump. The rebuilder set it up for 1bar boost, but I only have around 0.8
In the research how to raise boost on the K14, I ran into the Oettinger manual.
http://up.picr.de/31692846rq.pdf
It looks like they bled the governing boost of the wastegate into the rubber joint before the turbo, and let the boost work agaist the spring in the wastegate. They achieved around 0.9bar this way.
I was wondering what is the advantage of this setup over bleeding boost to the atmosphere?
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008

[?Waldo?]

I would use a ball/spring adjustable manual boost controller.

Low rpm, low load, you will have very slight vacuum in the intake system. An open bleed hole to atmosphere will pull in unfiltered air.

[ZsZ]

I see, then the Oettinger system avoids sucking unfiltered air.

Some local tuners suggesting using a setup like Volvo R5 2.5 tdi but managing the air with a ball/spring instead the electronics.
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008

[ALIKA T3]

Nice manual :-0

The Borg Warner K14 turbo has an adjustable waste gate, you have an M6 nut and an allen screw in the back of it. I can never remember when I don`t have the turbo under my eyes but I`m pretty sure you gotta screw it in to increase boost.
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Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[ZsZ]

[?Waldo?]

The machine screw on the k14 wastegate will adjust spring pressure but will also limit the opening of the valve. There is maybe 1 or 2 psi of adjustment available at most before the valve does not open far enough to control boost at higher rpms. The result is an unregulated boost spike after exhaust flow exceeds what the valve can allow to pass the turbine. I've fitted several K14's and tried various ways of controlling the max boost above stock and IMO, the ball/spring MBC is clearly the way to go.

[ALIKA T3]

I screwed that sucker all the way in and got 28 Psi on my M-Tdi, wooohoooo-hooo!!! What a blast
That`s not a 1 to 2 psi change...

I quickly went back to stock setting at 800 Grams /11.5 Psi ( I think it`s even 760 grams on the JX)
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[?Waldo?]

Right, you can block the wastegate closed and have completely un-regulated max boost. There are good reasons not to do that but indeed it can be done. My comment was that there is only 1 to 2 psi of adjustment with the wastegate screw before you no longer have a regulated max boost.

[ZsZ]

I had some delay in my project.

Installed a BW bleed valve fitting kit and a cheap chinese bleed valve
https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/bleed-valve-fitting-kit-t3-td-with-kkk-k14.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32789867023.html
but there was no change in the boost. The max is still staying around 0.8 bar regardless of how much air is vented out.

Then I screwed the adjuster on the wastegate in about a mm, and still no change.

The BOV on the intake manifold is modified to be shut all the time.
I have not tried the ball/spring controller, but I think there is something wrong.

Is there anything to check?

The WG is pretty much rusted to the turbo, so I cannot easily remove to bench test it.
_________________
Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008

[Witless Joe]

If that's a standard ball & spring manual boost controller, then it is supposed to go in between the compressor housing and the wastegate, to interrupt the air flow signal to the wastegate until it reaches a pre-set level you control with the dial.

So if you rigged it like AliExpress tells you to do, like this, then the wastegate is always going to be seeing the same pressure as the compressor housing... so these instructions look truly goofy to me:

This is the concept you need, I think:

You have a metal hard tube joining them on your K14, like this one, right?

On my K24, I just cut a short section from the middle of the metal tube, and spliced two short pieces of silicon tube over the remaining sections of tube using hose clamps. Then I fit the MBC in the middle, sliding the silicon hose over the two nipples on the MBC.

Maybe ugly to look at, but nice and short, and works a treat.

Here's a Youtube video where the guy seems to be installing the same kind of MBC you bought:


Link

[ZsZ]

It is a bleed valve. It bleeds some of the air from the system. You can set the amount by a needle valve.l and it have a small ball check valve in the T-piece.
I have installed the BW kit as the Oettinger manual says.
Just puts an extra banjo to one of the banjo bolts and bleed some of the opening pressure. But I have vented excess to atmosphere rather than the intake.

Probably my next task will be the ball/spring setup but it should change a little with the bleed valve.
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008

[Gizmoman]

You can only put in what you can exhaust.
If you can't boost to your goal, check for exhaust for restrictions.
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82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale).

[?Waldo?]

I prefer the ball/spring manual boost controllers (as they don't just inefficiently leak boost) but the bleed style will work if everything else is correct.

The K14 wastegate valve seat often gets pitted and leaky. That can result in lower and slower boost.

The wastegate valve can get sticky and not close fully.

[Butcher]

Bleeding is inefficient but if you think about it, the turbo can flow so much more air than the engine can take it, it will build pressure. That little bleeding is nothing compared to what it can do.

Just saying.

[?Waldo?]

The bleed style is inefficient by leaking boost pressure that is created with exhaust manifold pressure that absorbs engine power. The ball/spring style does not leak boost and so does not suffer from that same inefficiency. I don't see how it's actually relevant that the turbo can compensate for the boost leak when the boost leak is an unnecessary inefficiency with no benefit.

[ZsZ]

Our local (hungarian) "mtdi/diesel guru" says on a K14 you should modify the wastegate to the later style (Volvo 5cyl K14/K16) by welding in the holes and adding a nipple, and use a set pressure to keep it shut against the opening pressure. Just like the TIAL wastegates do.
He said that the ball/spring can cause sticking valve and adjusting the stroke of the valve is a no-go.

That is why I was trying the Oettinger style bleeding. It should be safe if a reliable tuning company advises it. My goal was the 0.9-1 bar.l anyways.
The problem is that I have only 0.75-0.8 bars whatever I do. Even with a lot of smoke. (Adjusting the LDA)
I will try the ball/spring adjuster to be sure if my valve is stuck or not, and if it is OK then I will go the modified wastegate route.
_________________
Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008

[?Waldo?]

I've added the ball/spring style of MBC to several K14's without issue.