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AB engine oil pressure issues help please
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gimli497N
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 3:56 am    Post subject: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

Hi All I'm new here so apologies if this is posted in the wrong place. I need some help with this as its driving me nuts. I have an AB engine in my 74 bug. Its running a EMPI pict 34 3 carb and a 009 distributor. I have timed her up according to Chris Vallone vid to 7.5 degrees and have adjusted the carb as per the instructions (the carb is brand new)

I recently did the main bearings on the engine and replaced all the tinware including fan shroud, and put in an alternator. I did all the seals and checked the end float (which is in tolerance). Well after putting it all back with new points, leads, plugs, coil, dizzy cap, rotor etc and making sure its all set right she runs. I checked the intake for vacuum leaks and there are none..

Ok now for the bit thats driving me insane! When i start her up she starts no probs, oil light goes out straight away, however after driving her for 15 miles every time i take my foot of the throttle the oil light comes on solid... When i touch the throttle again it goes out, but if i drive her any longer after this the worse it gets.. it takes more and more revs to get the light to go out... After this drive i used an infared thermometer to check the temp of the heads and on cylinder 2 it reads around 150C... Needless to say i have borrowed another car to drive at the moment as i dont want to destroy the work ive done... When she is hot she will idle ok but intermittently will die but she starts right up again. Things i didn't replace when i had the engine out are the oil pump, the oil cooler, the relief valves, the oil pressure switch.

So i have ordered stock new pump, and switch. I did flush out the old cooler when i had the engine out and it had no leaks.. There are no oil leaks and its not using oil, the grade I have is what VW recommend SAE 30 Castrol.. I need to use this car as my daily driver so any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated...
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goober
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 4:32 am    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

150C (about 300 deg F) sounds good to me.

How thick was the gasket between the oil pump's outer plate and the pump body?

In my limited experience if it's much more than .0045" thick the gap between the gears and the plate will be too much and you'll lose pressure.
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

When you replaced your mains, did your mic the journals (or have a machine shop do it) to make sure you were getting the right ones? Did you plastigage it or use another method of determining how much clearance was in there with the new bearings?
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gimli497N
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

bomberbob wrote:
When you replaced your mains, did your mic the journals (or have a machine shop do it) to make sure you were getting the right ones? Did you plastigage it or use another method of determining how much clearance was in there with the new bearings?


To be honest no i just replaced with standard.. this is my first bug.. first time doing anything like this to be honest...
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gimli497N
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

goober wrote:
150C (about 300 deg F) sounds good to me.

How thick was the gasket between the oil pump's outer plate and the pump body?

In my limited experience if it's much more than .0045" thick the gap between the gears and the plate will be too much and you'll lose pressure.


The gasket was a standard one that came with Elring gasket set for that engine.. However i do recall when i turned the engine over by hand to check that the pump was turning after i put it back in that there was some lag between turning the engine and the pump moving.. i guess that could mean the pump is abot worn???

By the way thank you for your replies i really appreciate it!
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

gimli497N wrote:
Things i didn't replace when i had the engine out are the oil pump, the oil cooler, the relief valves, the oil pressure switch.


I would replace the oil pressure switch and try out.

Some temporarily GENTLY thread in a mechanical pressure gauge there to test/confirm.
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

I am with Bobby on this one. Did you measure anything?

If not, that is where you need to return to and figure out. The quality of parts is soooo low now. SO LOW, that one cannot trust that you are buying a good part. So, measuring is mandated, for piece of mind.

You could try some 20-50 weight oil. That may get you through a few weeks but the bottom line is you most probably need to redo it but measure those journals, before reassembling.
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gimli497N
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

VW_Jimbo wrote:
I am with Bobby on this one. Did you measure anything?

If not, that is where you need to return to and figure out. The quality of parts is soooo low now. SO LOW, that one cannot trust that you are buying a good part. So, measuring is mandated, for piece of mind.

You could try some 20-50 weight oil. That may get you through a few weeks but the bottom line is you most probably need to redo it but measure those journals, before reassembling.


hey thanks for the reply... short answer is no... i just replaced all the bearings with standard size for that engine.. but forgive me for the stupid question... what would bearing clearance etc have to do with oil pressure....?? I mean replacing with bearings should improve things? not make things worse? It sorted out the issue i had with the end float which was the reason for me doing it? As i suspected the main fly wheel bearing was the issue and it turned out it was as its dowel hole was not round.. once i replaced it and shinmed it up correctly and torqued everything up it all came back into tolerance... yes it was trial and error short of approach but it was best i could do at the time...
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

There are more than two dozen sizes of Type 1 main bearings...

When you plug a hose with your finger, pressure builds. When you let your finger off, pressure releases, resulting in increased flow. Bearings that are the correct size flow oil out a very precise rate, keeping pressure adequate. Bearings that leave too large of a clearance allow excess flow out, dropping pressure.

Standard bearings are the least commonly used sizes, since most of these cases and cranks are 40+ years old and have been bored/machined at least once.

Let’s hope you got lucky with your bearings, and you have something simple like a bad oil pressure switch, sticking pressure plunger(s), or an idle speed that is far too low.

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

gimli497N wrote:


Ok now for the bit thats driving me insane! When i start her up she starts no probs, oil light goes out straight away, however after driving her for 15 miles every time i take my foot of the throttle the oil light comes on solid... When i touch the throttle again it goes out, but if i drive her any longer after this the worse it gets.. it takes more and more revs to get the light to go out... ..


Your idle speed when warm might be too low. Set it to 900rpm and see if that fixes it.
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

gimli497N wrote:


hey thanks for the reply... short answer is no... i just replaced all the bearings with standard size for that engine.. but forgive me for the stupid question... what would bearing clearance etc have to do with oil pressure....??


Wow Shocked

Time to open that case back up. If you did not measure, how do you know that the crankshaft hasn’t been turned .010” undersize in the past? If you used standard bearings with an undersized crankshaft, there’s your oil pressure problem.

Step 1 is to connect a mechanical oil pressure gauge into the port where the pressure sensor normally sits, just to see if you truly have a problem or if you just have a bad sensor.

But if you just threw shit together without measuring what you had, my guess is that you really do have a problem and the case is gonna have to be split to fix it.
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gimli497N
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

Hi all thanks for the replies.. I will check the switch and see if its that i hope i got lucky with the bearings i really do! Much to learn I still have...
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

gimli497N wrote:
Its running . . . a 009 distributor. I have timed her up according to Chris Vallone vid to 7.5 degrees . . .

Also, this could be contributing to your problem. If your carburetor and distributor were bone stock, you could get away with setting the timing this way. But the 009 rarely likes 7.5 degrees at idle, or rather, it idles great at 7.5 degrees, but at 3000 RPM, it's usually several degrees too retarded. Timing that is too retarded (or too advanced) can cause your engine to run hot, which in turn causes the oil pressure to drop. The longer you drove it, the worse the problem got, right?

Set your timing to 30 degrees (+/- 2 degrees) advanced at 3000 RPM, and let the idle timing fall where it may. With an 009, this will usually be at around 10 to 12 degrees advanced. See if that doesn't help.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

no Teflon tape or sealer on the oil sending unit threads they must be metal to metal contact. do you have your old main bearings? they were marked what size they were, if oversize, see if you got a matching set with the new ones. same with rod bearings.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

Hi everyone again thanks so much for all the suggestions. So i decided to do thing’s properly and send the case, crank and camshaft to machine shop to be sorted they will clean and crack test the case do the bearings cam and crank, polish the crank or grind it depending on the state of it, do a linebore and the thrust. that way i know beyond a shadow of a doubt that its all correct. The guys its going to only do VW aircooled machining and engine rebuilds.. So im busy stripping it all down to take it over Mon morning.. I will keep you posted as to how it goes.
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

I just went through a similar issue with my engine. I ended up replacing the relief valve pistons and springs with stiffer ones. Cleared up right away. I suspect the original setup was sticking open enough to keep the pressure low when the oil was hot.. Just throwing that out there.
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

Hi All just a quick update, Well upon stripping down the engine to take to machine shop, i found that no 2 piston was damaged, and also some of the cooling fins on the bore were knackered..... So i decided to go for new pistons and bores.... problem is i cant get 1300 for another 6 weeks minimum which is no good... so i spoke to the guys doing my machining and have gone for a 1600cc upgrade. Ive got new bore and piston set and new 1600 heads. They have also resurfaced the flywheel (which turns out was 1600 flywheel anyway) have also had the conrod bearings completely done.. So i now have it all back and am rebuilding, so just to recap, she is now a 1600 and has new bores pistons, rings etc, A reground crank, with bearings to match, I had the Cam done as well and had new cam bearings, Shes had a linebore and thrust cut (again bearings all matched by machine shop) The case has been cleaned and crack tested.. sigh All in all cost approx £1000 but now i know it is all good. So in the process of putting it back together.

Got the case back together and the cylinders and heads on, it all turns by hand.. used plenty of assembly lube!! but boy does it feel totally different to turn over by hand, everything feels spot on no slop anywhere..

Yes i do think it was the slap dash way i did the bearings as putting the new ones on the crank i noticed how much more snug they felt!! So im really looking forward to getting it all buttoned up and back on the road!!
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

Good to read that you are making progress with a positive feel to it!

Good luck!
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

Good on you for having a go yourself!

It’s easy for some people to criticise what you did as a rookie mistake but show me someone who hasn’t made a mistake before. You’ll learn from this even though it may be expensive.

I can remember as a young kid cracking the block of a 40 hp engine. Not knowing any better I found another half and just slapped it together with new bearings. Didn’t measure anything. Didn’t think you needed to. Didn’t know anything about line boring and oversized journals and undersized cranks.

This was all before the internet and the amount of info you can find on the SAMBA. As a total fluke the engine ran perfectly for years afterwards.

50 years have passed and I know a lot more but I learn something new every day. The only problem now is people have “paralysis by analysis”. People have to overanalyse every problem by asking for opinions instead of just getting in and doing something. Sure you make mistakes but that’s how you learn.
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: AB engine oil pressure issues help please Reply with quote

Nice job getting ity sorted out properly. One thing...I have to go on my 009 distributor rant for the 1001th time lol. That is the wrong distributor for that car, especially with that carb. It's known to cause driveability issues. A 009 has no place on a stock or nearly stock street driven vw. Vacuum advance can make a huge improvement in around town driving.
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