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Ksmit258 Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2020 Posts: 82
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:20 am Post subject: Disc brake conversion |
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So I’m tired of drums on the back of my rig.
I am going to do a rear disc brake conversion.
There is a ton of them out there any suggestions of what makes or bad experiences.
Also think I’m going to just delete front brakes all together.
What master cylinder should I go with.
As you can see any help on this topic will help. |
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BFB Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014 Posts: 1689
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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ooooh your gunna get an ear full about not running front brakes... haha sucks to be you! heh heh
all joking aside, your gunna need to tell everyone what your rig is...
ive run several rails with only rear disks and they were fine as long as your paying attention and know that if your doing 70 mph, you aint stopping quick. 20 to 40 i could typically lock up the rears though. and both of those were only 1200 lb rails too.
most of the set ups i used were typical empi styles but i did have an older Jamar wide 5 on my rail this i converted to a dual caliper set up. the jamar set up was pretty cool even before i made it dual but they seem over priced to me _________________ Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1 |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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Just stay off the roads and out of the traffic.
My rail came without and I ran it for several years that way out here in the prairie back country no problem. Then I encountered my first serious hill in mountain country... that was when the epiphany struck! Not only was I in serious danger of drowning in that lake, I was going to take my son down with me! Even at 15 mph, rear only does not work well downhill! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Ksmit258 Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2020 Posts: 82
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 4:47 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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Oh ok....got ya. Yes I was looking for input.
Now due to that information. I am fully convinced I will run rear disc and front drums.
Question is can I run my current dual port master cylinder.
And if so I was reading oh here go with a 10 psi residual valve on front and 2 psi to rear disc....would this be correct.
I spent all winter re building this....all new brakes (drums) and just not quite satisfied with it. So want to up grade... |
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Ksmit258 Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2020 Posts: 82
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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And I mean all brand new...every line, brake cylinders, shoes, drums, master cyl, resivoir, brake springs, not one thing left to make it better with current set up |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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I can't answer that. Each car is different and each driver sees brake balance differently too. If it were me I would give the master cylinder you have a try first. The balance will depend on not only the weight distribution of your car but also your tire diameters will play a big part. The taller your rears are the less effective those brakes will be. The shorter your front tires are the more effective they will be.
I haven't run my rail for several years due to it needing an engine rebuild but while is was down for that this winter I added stock early drum front brakes. I am running stock '68 Bus rear drum brakes, 24" tall rear tires and 28" fronts with an early Bus single port master cylinder. I am anxious to see how the brake balance will play out. With the Bus drums only the brakes were surprisingly effective on the flat other than the tendency for the car to swap ends if you tried to steer through a corner at speed with them on but on serious down hills they would lock up far too soon with the weight off them.
In fact on a steep down hill the rear tires would slide just from engine compression without even touching the brakes! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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jimmyhoffa Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: St. Louis
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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I went through a nearly identical thought process Ksmit. I had type 1 front drums and type 3 rears and I just felt the rears left something to be desired.
I restored a set of old Neal discs and couldn't be happier. I'm running Wilwood 4-pot calipers and Carbotech pads and it's perfect.
As a bonus, good discs (not the iron boat anchor China rotor) are plenty lighter than drums, so I shaved a respectable bit of unsprung weight.
I have front drums and don't feel compelled to upgrade in the slightest. I run hard off road and commute an hour round trip to work on the interstate. _________________ 1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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Ksmit258 Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2020 Posts: 82
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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DAM nice set up Jimmyh....wish you where In Michigan I would pay for some help on this thing...but I’m learning as I go(lol).
Don’t quite have the know how to inter mix a bunch of different make tho.
Thanks for all the information. |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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Have you looked at JAMAR disc brakes. The center hub is made out of chromoly,no more stripped splines.
I using JAMARs’ disc brakes front and rear on my buggy.
With trying to find quality parts for stub axles and bearings, I went with MicroStub rear setup which uses a Chevy 3/4 ton front hub and custom stub axle that uses 930 CV joints.
Since calipers do not have E brake I had add Wildwood mechanical calipers.
Trailing arms are aftermarket that are setup for the the microstubs.
_________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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Ksmit258 Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2020 Posts: 82
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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Another sweet set up...I appreciate the help, but now I see I need to step up my game on my built....lol
I’m going to look up jamar right now...thanks all |
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Ksmit258 Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2020 Posts: 82
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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JimmyH.... What master cylinder do you have with that set up |
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jimmyhoffa Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: St. Louis
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Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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I sent a PM to Ksmit but I have a balance bar pedal set with a 3/4" bore master to the rear calipers, and 5/8" bore to the front drums. (just so everybody else knows)
As for the Jamars, their design is almost identical to the Neals. So close, in fact, that I'm actually using Jamar's chromoly hub as the center of my Neals.
If I were buying new disc brakes today and hadn't found my set of Neals for $50, I'd DEFNINITELY be buying the Jamars. They use good calipers, have the chromoly hub design, and have replacement parts currently available. They're available for short and long spline VW and Microstub as well, as pictured above. That pretty well checks all the boxes in my mind! I have handled a set in person, and they are made well. _________________ 1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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Ksmit258 Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2020 Posts: 82
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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Looks like I’m pulling the trigger on the jamar brake set up...was hoping I could run a standard vw master cylinder with this set up.
Not currently ready into redoing all that...and quite honest not sure I could handle settting it up..
If I do front and rear disk I wanted to purchase a vw disc master cylinder without the standard residual valve built in.
Thanks |
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JWHracing Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2008 Posts: 234 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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What piston calipers are you going to run? 2 piston calipers might work okay with a stock style master. 4 piston most likely won't. not enough volume.
I have Jamar 4 piston rears paired with a 7/8 master.
I have Jamar 2 piston fronts paired with a 7/8 master as well. The pedal is an aftermarket dual master setup with a balance bar and adjustment knob on the dash.
When I first did the 4 piston conversion, i still had drums up front. The stock dual circuit master was not enough to work the rear calipers. i had to pump them up and even then it wasn't going to cut in a panic situation. _________________ 65 Baja - Class 5 Unlimited Race Car
2021 STORR Pro Air Cooled Buggy Champion
2019 AZOP Unlimited Buggy Champion
2017 SADR 1300 Class Champion
2016 AZOP Limited Buggy Champion
Currently "retired" from racing |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Disc brake conversion |
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The setup I shown on mine, yes I am using Neal dual master cylinders with a balance bar to adjust proportionately between front and rear circuits. I am using 3/4in master cylinders and a 2lb residual check valve for the rear circuits. This is because steering brake is mounted higher then master cylinder.
Front Jamar setup is two pistons mounted on Combo spindles.
Neal products are no longer available because they closed the business.
Right now this is the only I have on the Samba showing front brakes _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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