project git R done - 1977

[SGKent]

there is a bushing at the front of the shift pipebowl tube that falls out. Make sure it is there; the shifter coupling in the back can wear out and fall apart; also the shift lock out plate under the shifter can break.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[dlwilson]

[Mispeld]

Replacing the shifter with another 40+ year old one will not solve anything.

Inspect. Everything. Carefully.

I think the front bushing is probably the first thing to go but causes havoc over time on the rest of the components. The hole for the bushing on mine was worn in an egg shape and the new bushing was too sloppy. I cut out a piece of sheet metal, drilled a 1” hole for the bushing and bolted it over the existing front bushing plate. I had the e-brake linkage removed for access. I could have welded it in but I like being able to remove it for whatever reasons in the future.

Inspect the shifter, ball, pin and circle above the ball. Mine was worn on two sides on the circle where it rides on the lockout plate. I welded the surface back up and created a nice round surface.

The below isn't the finished product but shows what I did.

Inspect the slop of the ball and pin in the hole/bowl of the shift shaft. I removed the shaft and actually squeezed the bowl a tiny bit with the pipe fitting on the bench vice. That really tightened the side to side/twisting motion of the shifter. Do not overdo it though. (Shifter circle part is mostly round again!)

Inspect the lockout plate and study how it works. Again, I ended up welding the worn sides and filing back down for a nice smooth surface. Aftermarket lockout plates are garbage compared to the originals. The originals have nice sharp 90 degree angles where the tabs bend up. Not so much in aftermarket.

Inspect shifter coupling in the rear. I mixed original cage with new bushing.

There is a good chance everything else mentioned above will need attention if the PO continued to man-handle the shifter well after the hockey stick ball and/or front bushing failed. Once all of these little issues are cleared up then the final shifter adjustment is actually worth doing with great results!
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Tom
1977 Westy. 2.0 Fuel Injected.

[vwwestyman]

[Mispeld]

I stand corrected. It wasn't the middle part that holds pipe but rather the other side of my vice that can hold round stuff.

Yes - it was a bit difficult. I bent the handle on the vice and had to bend it back when I was done! Acetylene would have been an option if the vice didn’t work.

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Tom
1977 Westy. 2.0 Fuel Injected.

[dlwilson]

The longblock is built, and I put the sheet metal on it to mock it up. I'm still waiting on a few seals for the tin, but I wanted to see how it looks. Then I figured I should try sticking it in the bus to see what that involved. Long ago I had a 1969 bus with a Type 1 engine in it, and I had that engine in and out on a monthly basis. Nothing to it. But this is my first Type 4, and the bus came to me without an engine, so I didn't have the educational experience of removing the engine.

I could swear I had read some writeups on how to do it, but of course when I searched there was nothing to be found.

With the bus on the lift, and the engine on a trans jack on the floor, I started jockeying the engine back and forth and up and down. Eventually I removed the rear tin and the oil filler, and the rear support bar, and was able to get the bottom engine mounting studs into the transmission. But they are too short!

It makes sense, since this engine was undoubtedly in a 1973 bus, which presumably has a transmission different than the 091 in this one, so the studs are shorter. After some google'ing I found that I need 100mm studs, rather than the 70mm ones I have. I purchased some on eBay.

I also need longer bolts up top. I found a 123mm shaft length D-bolt from a seller on here. And for the driver side top bolt I should be able to get one from Fastenal or a hardware store.

As soon as I can bolt the engine to the trans I want to see how the rear support bar fits in place. Then I can see what's involved in getting the firewall seal and the engine compartment in, and working on a battery hold down, and figuring out how the wiring is supposed to go.

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1977 Bus, with 1973 1.7L engine (rebuild complete, install underway)

[Jetfxr69]

[Jetfxr69]

[dlwilson]

[vwwestyman]

If you're installing a 1973 motor onto the original transmission (and it looks like it's probably the 6-rib from the pics) for your '77 Bus, the bellhousing is not a correct match for your engine; it is deeper.

That would explain the bolt length.

You'll want to do some reading on getting the correct flywheel/clutch/starter setup for that combo. Unfortunately, I bet most of the information will be in reverse... i.e. people wanting to install a 2.0 onto an earlier transmission.

Also, you might find the gearing of that transmission to be a little too tall for the '73 motor.

I'm sorry to be the possible bearer of bad news!
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[busdaddy]

Yep, I see a 6 rib 091 under there, you'll need a late flywheel/clutch and a late starter. And as mentioned it'll be an overheating dog with those ratios.

And take a wire brush and some steel wool to that pilot shaft, the end of it is a bearing, and the splines have to be clean and smooth for the clutch disc to slide easily on them in use.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

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[dlwilson]

[dlwilson]

I'm back! I've been hanging out in the performance/engine forum here, while I rebuilt the engine (https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=747408). But this weekend I fired up the engine on the bench for it's 20 minute cam break-in run, and amazingly everything went smoothly, and I say it's ready to go back in. Now I have to finish prepping the bus.

Oh, follow-up to previous flywheel posts. I ended up keeping the 210mm setup, which worked just fine when mated to a 091 transmission. I did find that the starter for an automatic transmission will not work with the 091, so I had to buy a different starter and replace the bushing, but once it was set up it worked great.

Also I have the engine bolted to the trans for the run-in, so I will be putting them back in as a unit. Can I leave all the tin on for this? And the muffler? And does the long engine seal go on after the engine is in?

Bus prep requires just a few things to make it driveable. The first is the gas cap. I don't have one, or even a place to put one. Many years ago I had 1969 bus, which I remember had a flap to cover the cap. This one just has a hole. What do I need to buy so I can have a place to put the cap?

Something else to do before the first drive is buy or fabricate something to mount the battery. It looks like someone put in a replacement battery tray, so I think I just need the battery hold down clamp.

I also have to mount the passenger front seat, and check/replace the throttle cable. My carb linkage doesn't have the barrel nut thing that the cable goes into. It looks like it should be about 0.5" in diameter, based on the linkage, but I can't find one online anywhere. Suggestions.

After that, just install the engine/trans, and figure out the wiring at the starter motor. I'm converting to a carb'ed engine from FI, so it should be simple. Does the main power for the electrical system come from the hot stud on the starter?

And in the "for the future" category, do something about the sunroof. There's just a sunroof, and no mechanism or tracks, so it leaks a lot. After reading about the difficulty of making the sunroof work I'm leaning toward just closing up the hole by welding in a piece of sheet metal. Then there's making the vent windows work, and replacing the leaky window seals, but that all comes after it runs and drives.

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1977 Bus, with 1973 1.7L engine (rebuild complete, install underway)

[dlwilson]

Good progress tonight. First up was the fuel filler. Today in the mail I got the right-angle boot that goes to the fuel filler flange, the flange itself, the hose that goes between the tank and metal filler tube, and a gas cap. I was disappointed in the right angle boot. The boot on the bus is a heavy rubber, and has some rubber inside to seal on the gas pump nozzle. The new boot is a much lighter rubber, has no internal piece, and the four flange holes aren't even the right pattern. But it's a new piece, so I used it.

The new filler hose was also confusing. I was expecting just a short straight piece of hose, but what I got was a longer piece with a bend in it that matches the metal tube. I though about cutting off part of the metal tube to replace it with rubber, but when it comes to fuel, metal > rubber. I cut off a short piece to replace the existing rubber tube, which was pretty fragile. It all went in without too much trouble, and I replaced all five of the hose pieces in the fuel tank vent tubing while I was in there. Although, the two tubes don't connect to anything where they end in the engine compartment, so maybe I need a canister of some sort.

Then I got to put the fuel filler flange on. I've wondered since I got this bus how the gas cap would go on, and now I know. I put the flange on with four self-tapping screws.

While I had the fuel tank cover plate out I tried again to figure out how the firewall seal attaches to it. One end of the channel is too small for the seal, and the channel gradually gets wider until it's too wide for the seal at the other end. It doesn't appear to be bent. Do I just glue the seal in? I don't have a good picture.

Next was some metalwork, which I'm not good at. The left rear corner of the sheet metal surrounding the engine opening was pretty mangled. I worked it over with pliers, hammer, and dolly, until it looked better. I finally realized I could use the engine sheet metal as a model. [Also, what's the mount/brace thing below the bent metal in the first picture? Can I remove it?]

Finally I had to make a battery hold-down. Someone had replaced the battery tray, but there was no hold-down plate. I got a big battery on sale, so I didn't think the stock hold-down would fit. I ended up making one, mostly out of mig wire, and a little bit of angle iron. It took a lot of cutting, fitting, welding, and grinding, but the battery seems secure.

I think I'm ready to try putting the engine in. I tried once before to install the engine when the trans was already in. There is a helpful tip on this thread to try it with the trans and engine together. The trans is already on the engine from the bench break-in, so I'm going to try it that way. With the lift all the way up, the bus just barely clears the engine on the bench, so I'm going to roll the bench under there, and try to lower the bus onto it. Any tips?
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1977 Bus, with 1973 1.7L engine (rebuild complete, install underway)

[Jetfxr69]

The larger hose you bought is for an earlier style filler neck. Somewhere in ‘76 model year production, VW went from a shorter steel tube ( which would use that longer rubber tube), to a longer steel tube which obviously only requires a couple inches of hose.

My ‘77 is like yours with the short rubber connector, but my daughters ‘76 project takes the longer one.

From Ratwell: 1 ft. of 2 1/4" Filler hose to tank hose, NAPA 1055 NBH GAS HOSE

https://ratwell.com/technical/FuelTankRestoration.html

I will try to get hands on my two different necks and snap a pic so you can see the difference in length.
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You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Zappa

‘77 westy Seamus
‘76 tintop Crusher
‘77 westy The Judge
‘72 tintop bastard westy Hudson

[Jetfxr69]

Think you will be fighting your install by lowering bus onto motor. As you lower it, you loose clearance to get under there for hook ups. If you can score one of these, it makes install a breeze.

I just put a motor in the other day. With this style jack, you can be under the bus and guide the trans forks, shift rod, and hanger lugs into position while just using your foot to pump up the jack at the same time. I set the bus on jack stands under rear tube at a height of 28” from bottom of rear valance to floor. With the s-tube off, the whole thing slides right underneath. I leave exhaust off till later just for ease of jacking.

This pic is an older one but you get the idea.

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You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Zappa

‘77 westy Seamus
‘76 tintop Crusher
‘77 westy The Judge
‘72 tintop bastard westy Hudson

[Jetfxr69]

Here are the ones off my old tour bus and daughters project bus. Both ‘76 models. And as you found out, the rubber section is much larger then what is needed for the ‘77 and later years.

Cant find my spare ‘77 tube, but you already know what that one looks like. Not sure if you can buy the shorter rubber you need, but the Napa trick works just fine and is readily available.

Or another option, is to just cut your steel tube down as needed. The cut would be in the straight area, so you could get a solid clamping in there. You just loose the raised area at the end of the tube that keeps a clamp from sliding off.

If I were gonna go that route, I would double up the clamps, 180* out on the end. Cheap insurance that the clamp wont slide off.
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You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Zappa

‘77 westy Seamus
‘76 tintop Crusher
‘77 westy The Judge
‘72 tintop bastard westy Hudson

[dlwilson]

[dlwilson]

I got four General Grabber A/TX tires on today. I ordered them from Tire Rack ($500 shipped, with $100 rebate), and had them sent to a mobile installer. He showed up today, and charged $150 for mount, balance, valve stems, and old tire disposal. Now I have to stay on top of the rebate, and make sure I use the gift card they send me before it expires.

I also got the sliding door working after asking for help in this thread (https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=754488). I'm happy, because I thought the door would need significant repair before I could really drive the bus, even after I get it running. Instead it was just a piece of welding rod. Although the door could still use a tune-up and adjustment.

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1977 Bus, with 1973 1.7L engine (rebuild complete, install underway)

[Jetfxr69]

Oh shit dude! Didnt realize you were raising and lowering your bus on a lift. That changes everything. That dog ‘ll hunt!
_________________
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Zappa

‘77 westy Seamus
‘76 tintop Crusher
‘77 westy The Judge
‘72 tintop bastard westy Hudson