Anyone have luck with the 123 ignition?

[sanhozeezee]

i just added some dual kadrons on my split bus with a 1641 dp. im getting the infamous flat spot off idle. to be more specific, when i give gas the motor will die out. *if* i feather the pedal i can get it pass the flat spot without dying or once im driving it will sputter and just continue running.

anyhow, i'm hearing it could be a number of things from accelerator pump/diaphram to my 009 not having as much advance timing. so i'm thinking of ponying up and getting a 123 electronic/bluetooth distributor and wondering if anyone here has one?

if so, can you share your experience with it? is it worth having the bluetooth feature to advance/retard timing on the fly?

[Glenn]

Why not find the cause if it's the carb?

If you have the original carb you want to match it to the original distributor, so what carb do you have?
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[sanhozeezee]

i had a single solex carb matched with the 009.

the kadrons are "new to me" and were set up on a 1600 according to the PO. i'm going to revisit the carbs (resync, adjust, etc.) and also do the timing when i ran across some of the feedback from others saying the 123 distributors are nice cause it allows for much more advance than the 009.

[sanhozeezee]

here's a video of it running after instal...


Link

[Glenn]

[Culito]

I'd look into the CB Performance Black Box. It's done wonders for my dual IDFs.
_________________
Copyright CJ Industries, Inc.
'64 standard w/2.0L type 4
'62 bug

[BonTonRoulet]

I was just yesterday beginning on rehabbing my engine that has been shelved for the last 6 years. It's a single port 1600 with dual Kadrons, a 009 and a single quiet pack muffler. Ran like a top for the last 21 years. Not being familiar with a dual port engine with the Kadrons, but I've got a vacuum balance tube between both intake manifolds and the right hand carb air cleaner base has a tube that connects to the oil breather with a hose. I see you have routed your breather through the tin? Is that how it is done? A friend with a freshly built 356C engine went round and round for months with his engine exhibiting an off idle issue as per your video, he wound up having the carbs completely rebuilt (about $1700!) and the issue went away. He had tried other carbs, distributors, coils, wires, you name it.....in the end it was the carbs.

[sanhozeezee]

[karl h]

they come stock with a 130 main jet, but a 125 or 127.5 can work. get a jet gage, dont trust the numbers on the jets, many have been redrilled
_________________
61 panel: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=465022
68 ghia vert
arctic alice (63 on irs): http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,27456.0.html
86 Caravelle
04 new beetle vert

[Split 66']

No experience with the ignition you mentioned OP, but I had a similar problem with my Kads. Turns out one of them had a cracked emulsion tube, sent them back to Kaddie Shack and they fixed them. There's no more flat spot, No more hesitation off idle, with Pertronix Ignitor in a Bosch 019 equivalent, Pertronix Ignitor coil, and 30° of advance. Have had it set this way for 10 years, haven't adjusted the timing since.

https://shop.kaddieshack.com/Kadron-Solex-H40-44EI...KAD-EM.htm
_________________
"OG = Original German" -- TheSamba.com dictionary

[sanhozeezee]

quick update: we just installed the new ac pump diaphragm and the hesitation from idle seems to be fixed. but i’m still getting a flat spot just after idle. i picked up the 123distributor and wondering if anyone can share the right static timing? according to the instructions, it says for the 009 the static timing is set at 7 deg. should i set it for a little more advance?

it also says that the advance at 3000+ rpm should be between 28 and 32deg.

[sanhozeezee]

just finished installing the 123 unit. pretty sweet imo. here's a video of it running and the curves i have set so far. eliminated the flat spot form idle completely! now i have some studder mid range which i think is related to my timing curve not right yet. below the video are the curve settings i'm looking to get help with...


Link

[CamBiscuit]

Curious to know how you are getting on with this?

It would be great to get it on the dyno to be able to see what works in the way of adjustments in real time........
_________________
1965 ratty single cab
Instagram @cambiscuit

[Culito]

I'll see if I can post a screenshot of my Black Box dist. curve and MAP settings.
I just have it on the default dual carb setup, and It's been running beautifully.
_________________
Copyright CJ Industries, Inc.
'64 standard w/2.0L type 4
'62 bug

[sanhozeezee]

[ted698]

I run a very similar setup - a 1904 SP heads, dual Kad's (from KaddieShack) with Vac.
I have a 123Tune+ Bluetooth Distributor and did a fair amount of work to get this far - I found the more advance you give it at idle the smoother it ticks over, and the sooner you ramp up the advance the less 'flat spot' type symptom you get.
I did a comparison graph between the stock 034 Vac Adv dizzy thats commonly fitted these days and a Mallory (now MSD) $400 red top with GREY/GREY springs that John at Aircoolednet recommends and what I found 'felt' seat of the pants right.
What the excel graph *really* shows is just how sedate the advance is on a stock 034 (this was mapped from the correct Bosch half speed distributor tables) - the settings I use really pepped up the engine - you can see I start my advance at 11 for nice tickover, (modern cars these days run really high idle adv - 14/16deg!), the only change from these figures is I fancied occasionally on a hot day I thought it pinged a touch (just once or twice), but I could have been imagining this, so I dropped the final advance back a degree to 31.
The important part is the more agressive ramp up of the advance rather than the overall final advance, it would be interesting to see what the best results would be from a proper dyno.
I can't take credit for all of this - as I spent alot of time looking at the ignition maps from the MegaJolt and Programmable ECM boys - but the ign point is gnerally the same across most maps - its just the way you fire it!
Cheers,
TED

(also to add I'm in the UK where we have 95 Octane petrol (gas!) as a minimum standard, with 97 as 'super' I just run standard pump 95)

[sanhozeezee]

you rock ted698! i'm gonna try plugging in your numbers and see if it improves my set up. question, i read somewhere in the manual to ty and keep the points on the lower side. at 10, are you seeing any weirdness?

[ted698]

No not at all, the more data points you have mapped the finer the control in my opinion.
Your vac map looks a bit tame, try adding my numbers as you are rolling your vac off pretty early. It took me a while to get my head around the vac programming but if you remember that normal air pressure is 100kpa, so anything less than 100 is vacuum.

[sanhozeezee]

ok plugged your numbers in and i can't tell if it helped me lol. i notice the flat spot isn't off idle anymore for sure. but right around 1200-1500 if i punch thru it'll stutter but stay running. if i stay on the pedal and gradually climb thru it will drop rpm's and eventually die if i don't feather the pedal.

i checked my accelerator pump travel and im at 4mm per kaddyshacks video. i also replaced the diaphragm since it felt a little stiff. i guess next is to pull the idle and main jets to see if the PO put in the wrong size?

[Culito]

Not sure these will help much since the Black Box does things a bit differently, but here's my spark table and vac map. These are just the defaults - I have tweaked mine a bit here and there but this was a good starting point for me:

Note that RPM is on the vertical column, and engine load is across the top, low load on the left to high load on the right.

Note that you vac settings might change based on you elevation (I'm at about sea level).
_________________
Copyright CJ Industries, Inc.
'64 standard w/2.0L type 4
'62 bug