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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 2:04 pm Post subject: FK65 vs w110 cam |
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I'm rebuilding my 2110 in a 69 bug that used to be my DD. Some of its specs: w110 cam, dual 44IDFs (stock vents), Valves are larger than an 044, but forgot the sizes, Hemi combustion chamber, 1-5/8 exhaust. I used to have a notebook with all of the specs, but it got wet and is unreadable. Also, the engine is about 10 years old, and my memory isn't that good.
Before it got tired, this was one of the best all round VW engine I've seen. It was in a sand rail, Baja bug, then my DD. In my DD I could go 35mph in 4th gear, and floor it. No bog or hesitation, it just pulled all the way to the redline. It also liked to put other cars to shame in steep mountain passes.
I am also pulling down a couple of 2010s that were in mine and my Dad's Bajas, and keeping the best parts.
So to the question: I pulled a good FK65 with 1.4:1 rockers out of my Baja engine. Going by the specks, it has more lift than the w110, but less duration. So how would the FK setup compare to the w110? _________________ 69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7183 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: FK65 vs w110 cam |
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A low compression 2110 with a W110 cam should by any means be docile, unless the ports in the heads are huge.
The fact that it put other cars to shame uphills doesnt really say much. - I mean how many other cars do you know that boasts 2 liter+ engines and weigh around 800 kg.
Wrt your cam question IŽd say none of the 2, unless you still wanna roam the streets at idle or just over. The choice of cam should really be chosen from what the heads are and then combined with what engine behaviure you want.
Off hand I would say flycut the h*** out of those heads and get as much static compression as you decently can and go buy a FK8 coupled with 1,4 rockers of course. As you know I am generally not much for Engle cams, but the FK8 is nice all the way around. If you want a little more lower rpm grunt then chose the CB 2288. (It is marginal, but there is a difference)
Another option is the CB 2242 w. 1,25 rockers. If your heads happen to have the dreaded 42 x 37,5 mm valve set up you also have the option of splitting the lift to regain some lower end driveability and torque most likely without loosing anything up top. _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: FK65 vs w110 cam |
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It isn't a low compression engine, and the ports and valves in the heads are huge. I didn't build the engine, but gave it a freshen up a couple of years back, and I thought that the valves and ports were too much for a w110, but everything must have fell together just right. I'll know more about the heads in a couple of weeks after my shoulder heals from surgery I'm not looking for a high RPM screamer, I went through that phase of VWs 30 years ago, and if I need an adrenaline rush, I can jump on my dirt bike or RZR. I just want it back the way it was (a hard hitting sleeper), and was just wondering about the difference between the two different cams. _________________ 69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: FK65 vs w110 cam |
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The FK65 is like a 5000 rpm cam. Best used for small engines or engines where you want all bottom end. _________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:37 am Post subject: Re: FK65 vs w110 cam |
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You might be interested in a Web Cam 86A. Just an idea.
Less duration will keep the powerband lower. Lift doesn't have nearly as much affect on powerband. More lift will pretty much add performance everywhere but the tradeoff is durability. Less lift is easier on the valve train. It's all relative tho.
If you don't want to buy any new parts just keep the W110 in there. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 10:17 am Post subject: Re: FK65 vs w110 cam |
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evanfrucht wrote: |
You might be interested in a Web Cam 86A. Just an idea.
Less duration will keep the powerband lower. Lift doesn't have nearly as much affect on powerband. More lift will pretty much add performance everywhere but the tradeoff is durability. Less lift is easier on the valve train. It's all relative tho.
If you don't want to buy any new parts just keep the W110 in there. |
I'll have to check out the web cam. Its at least a 10 year old engine, so I assume the cam is on its way out. The main things I want to salvage are the Crank (Scat - Superlite, Rods - Carrillo, Porsche bearing and length, and the heads). From the parts you can see that it is Quality, old school engine.
I am now thinking for cams: W120 or FK8 with 1.4:1 rockers. _________________ 69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 10:41 am Post subject: Re: FK65 vs w110 cam |
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A FK8 (very similar to Web Cam 86B) will give it more top end than you have now by a little bit which may or may not be what you want. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3574 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:35 am Post subject: Re: FK65 vs w110 cam |
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The cam is one part that trying to save a few bucks on is a bad idea. Don't use a cam just because you already have it, use it because it is the best choice. |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3228 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: FK65 vs w110 cam |
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Figure out what you have for heads available. Then figure out the displacement you want, and how high you honestly need/want to rev it.
Then pick the heads with the closest CSArea to suit your needs.
Then pick a cam that will work nicely with your intended power band.
Big sloppy heads, low compression and a mild cam is a horrific combo. Smallest valves that will get the job done, appropriately shaped and sized ports with a correct cam is am amazing combo to drive on the street.
I would suggest well done 40x35 heads, 9.0-9.5, CB 2288, add a set of properly prepped thick wall 92's to your current crank and case.
I built this, but a 2276cc, and it was one of my favorite driver engines. Big torque everywhere, and super easy to drive in a bug.
Brian _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: FK65 vs w110 cam |
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If those were the last two cams on earth, I would chose the FK-65. It is torquey, if nothing else... |
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Ohio Tom Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1657 Location: Marshallville Ohio
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: FK65 vs w110 cam |
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For your application, I would stay away from any cam that has more than 285deg duration. More duration will make the bottom end soggy. You aren't looking for 7,000rpm anyways, so there is no point.
I have been using the XR280 cam (280deg duration) in alot of street motors lately.
1776cc to 2109cc. Panchito heads.. Great combos. Those motors impress me to no end.
lots less duration than folks recommend commonly.
I use rockers that keep lift under .500". That all works well with the Panchito head.
They are quiet, make torque from 2,000rpm to 6,000rpm easily.
Seems like it has power everywhere. Doesn't matter when you shift. The torque is always there. No waiting for the cam to hit.
Over-camming a motor sucks. It's a mistake that you live with until re-build time. Driving a car that is "under the cam" for most of the time sucks.
Take advantage of your displacement and good flowing heads. Let them do the work. Keep the cam mild. No need for a big bump-stick. |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7375
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: FK65 vs w110 cam |
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I used the XR280 for 75k miles on a daily driver in a 1776. Like Tom said there is torque everywhere similiar to a Webcam 218. |
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Simon DeCasas Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004 Posts: 58
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 10:11 am Post subject: Re: FK65 vs w110 cam |
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Who makes the XR280 cam and with 1.1 rockers will it still flow with decent size valves say in a pair of CB Panchito heads? |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7375
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