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BusBoi Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2020 Posts: 4 Location: CO
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:09 pm Post subject: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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Hey all,
First time posting, I went tried to start my 78 bay the other day and discovered that when I crank it it catches and fires a few times then dies. It has the standard 2.0 liter engine with fuel injection. It ran fine about 2 weeks ago.
Other things I've noticed:
The behavior is highly repeatable.
The throttle has no effect
For what little time the engine does run the mixture seems really rich
Out of the 20 or so times I've tried this it's backfired twice, filling the engine bay with smoke
Prior to all of this I had replaced the engine bay seal so I checked to see if I dislodged anything, but no luck.
I reseated all of the plugs for the injectors and the air fuel mixture box
I checked the points and the gap was fine.
Spark off the coil seems fine.
I've also checked the fuel pump and it seemed to be dumping enough fuel when cranking.
I don't really know where to start with the fi setup other than to reseat cables
Considering I've had this bus for over a year and the engine's never given me any trouble at all I can't help but feel like its something simple that I caused replacing the seals and I just haven't found it
Any Tips appreciated! |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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Welcome!
Any chance you knocked off the single wire leading to the sensor over cylinder #3's intake in the process of changing that seal? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Слава Україні! |
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secretsubmariner Champagne Wrangler
Joined: January 08, 2011 Posts: 3104 Location: Tulsa, OK
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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There is a manual that walks you through a problem and tells you what may be causing the issue. It's in the Technical section, although I'm not sure exactly which manual will be best suited to assist you, you can find it here
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/fuelinjection.php
This one might be the one..
AFC Fuel Injection Types 1 and 2 from November, 1974
I have a 1978 FI 2.0 Bus, and I think the actual manual I have is from 76. I don't see it in the technical section, but I hope one of the manuals there could help you troubleshoot at least. _________________ -Tony
ᏣᎳᎩᎯ ᎠᏰᎵ
1978 Champagne Edition Bus FI
1970 Auto Fastback FI |
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BusBoi Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2020 Posts: 4 Location: CO
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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Thanks for the feedback!
Once I can get another pair of hands I'll definitely go through that troubleshooting guide. I can look for that sensor wire tonight. _________________ 1978 Champagne Transporter |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3547 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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When I've seen this, it was because the cold start injector was working but the main injectors were not (hence the start but no run). Check one of the injectors with a 'noid' light (or carefully with a test light), and see if it's pulsing. Could be either a missing trigger wire from the points to the FI controller, or maybe the double relay or its connections (like a pin pressed out of one of the double relay connectors). _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50262
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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A bad vacuum leak (like the vacuum line for the power brakes being off) can cause this behavior. |
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D52E Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2019 Posts: 57 Location: Nashville, TN
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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Wildthings wrote: |
A bad vacuum leak (like the vacuum line for the power brakes being off) can cause this behavior. |
I agree with this feedback. I had a similar situation where it backfired and blew off the brake booster vacuum line creating a massive vacuum leak. It would briefly start and stall. _________________ 1977 Bus
2.0 fuel injection
Solid lifters
Manual transmission
GM 105A Alternator |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22573 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 2:44 am Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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Isn’t this classic failure of the fuel pump to be driven by the AFM vane? _________________ .ssS! |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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Hard to be sure, the OP mentions it seems rich when it does run, lack of fuel doesn't cause that. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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mikewire Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2010 Posts: 802 Location: San Antonio, TX
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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I'm along the lines of thinking like Busdaddy...working around cyl #3 you may have knocked a wire loose somewhere on the double relay. And like he mentioned, also check that TS2 sensor while you're over in that area.
Back when I very first had my Bus and swapped the 2.0L into it, I had one wire off the FI harness on the battery side that I hooked to a ground...yeah it was the issue...unhooked it and it fired right up.
All it takes is one wire to send ya going sideways for a while. _________________ -Mike
@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro
1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue |
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BusBoi Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2020 Posts: 4 Location: CO
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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Quote: |
When I've seen this, it was because the cold start injector was working but the main injectors were not (hence the start but no run). |
This seems spot on. Checking the injector plugs with a test light yields no pulsing and removing the cold start injector plug prevents the engine from firing at all.
I will be looking at the double relay and resistor block next.
Stay Tuned! _________________ 1978 Champagne Transporter |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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The long black wire with the fuse holder in it laying along the left side of the engine is connected to #15 on the coil, right? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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BusBoi Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2020 Posts: 4 Location: CO
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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The culprit has been found!
The black cable that goes between the coil and the fuse that busdaddy suggested was fine, but upon very close inspection the other black wire coming out of that side of the fuse holder had a small nick. After cutting out the suspect section and splicing the wire back together everything worked normally again.
Thanks so much for all the suggestions from everyone! I would have been totally lost without them. _________________ 1978 Champagne Transporter |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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Ah HA!, good work!, thanks for following up. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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ImAddicted Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012 Posts: 1195 Location: Unorganized Territory, Maine
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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Gotta love those “oh crap” problems that end up being a simple, cheap fix! _________________ 1979 Transporter (sold)
KC1MUR
strfish7 wrote: |
Original condition, which means something different on this forum than anywhere else! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50262
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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BusBoi wrote: |
The culprit has been found!
The black cable that goes between the coil and the fuse that busdaddy suggested was fine, but upon very close inspection the other black wire coming out of that side of the fuse holder had a small nick. After cutting out the suspect section and splicing the wire back together everything worked normally again.
Thanks so much for all the suggestions from everyone! I would have been totally lost without them. |
Not sure why it would have started at all if this were the problem. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22573 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:36 am Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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Wildthings wrote: |
BusBoi wrote: |
The culprit has been found!
The black cable that goes between the coil and the fuse that busdaddy suggested was fine, but upon very close inspection the other black wire coming out of that side of the fuse holder had a small nick. After cutting out the suspect section and splicing the wire back together everything worked normally again.
Thanks so much for all the suggestions from everyone! I would have been totally lost without them. |
Not sure why it would have started at all if this were the problem. |
He’ll be back, soon. _________________ .ssS! |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately |
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Wildthings wrote: |
BusBoi wrote: |
The culprit has been found!
The black cable that goes between the coil and the fuse that busdaddy suggested was fine, but upon very close inspection the other black wire coming out of that side of the fuse holder had a small nick. After cutting out the suspect section and splicing the wire back together everything worked normally again.
Thanks so much for all the suggestions from everyone! I would have been totally lost without them. |
Not sure why it would have started at all if this were the problem. |
It's a common symptom of forgetting to plug that wire in, my theory as to why is after a priming shot from the CSV injector/ECU power backfeeds through the fuel pump contacts in the AFM until fuel pressure dies off and then it quits.
_________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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