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Bay window starts then dies immediately
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BusBoi
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:09 pm    Post subject: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

Hey all,

First time posting, I went tried to start my 78 bay the other day and discovered that when I crank it it catches and fires a few times then dies. It has the standard 2.0 liter engine with fuel injection. It ran fine about 2 weeks ago.

Other things I've noticed:
The behavior is highly repeatable.
The throttle has no effect
For what little time the engine does run the mixture seems really rich
Out of the 20 or so times I've tried this it's backfired twice, filling the engine bay with smoke

Prior to all of this I had replaced the engine bay seal so I checked to see if I dislodged anything, but no luck.
I reseated all of the plugs for the injectors and the air fuel mixture box
I checked the points and the gap was fine.
Spark off the coil seems fine.
I've also checked the fuel pump and it seemed to be dumping enough fuel when cranking.
I don't really know where to start with the fi setup other than to reseat cables

Considering I've had this bus for over a year and the engine's never given me any trouble at all I can't help but feel like its something simple that I caused replacing the seals and I just haven't found it

Any Tips appreciated!
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

Welcome!
Any chance you knocked off the single wire leading to the sensor over cylinder #3's intake in the process of changing that seal?
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secretsubmariner
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

There is a manual that walks you through a problem and tells you what may be causing the issue. It's in the Technical section, although I'm not sure exactly which manual will be best suited to assist you, you can find it here

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/fuelinjection.php
This one might be the one..
AFC Fuel Injection Types 1 and 2 from November, 1974

I have a 1978 FI 2.0 Bus, and I think the actual manual I have is from 76. I don't see it in the technical section, but I hope one of the manuals there could help you troubleshoot at least.
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BusBoi
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback!

Once I can get another pair of hands I'll definitely go through that troubleshooting guide. I can look for that sensor wire tonight.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

When I've seen this, it was because the cold start injector was working but the main injectors were not (hence the start but no run). Check one of the injectors with a 'noid' light (or carefully with a test light), and see if it's pulsing. Could be either a missing trigger wire from the points to the FI controller, or maybe the double relay or its connections (like a pin pressed out of one of the double relay connectors).
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

A bad vacuum leak (like the vacuum line for the power brakes being off) can cause this behavior.
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D52E
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
A bad vacuum leak (like the vacuum line for the power brakes being off) can cause this behavior.


I agree with this feedback. I had a similar situation where it backfired and blew off the brake booster vacuum line creating a massive vacuum leak. It would briefly start and stall.
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 2:44 am    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

Isn’t this classic failure of the fuel pump to be driven by the AFM vane?
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

Hard to be sure, the OP mentions it seems rich when it does run, lack of fuel doesn't cause that.
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mikewire
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

I'm along the lines of thinking like Busdaddy...working around cyl #3 you may have knocked a wire loose somewhere on the double relay. And like he mentioned, also check that TS2 sensor while you're over in that area.

Back when I very first had my Bus and swapped the 2.0L into it, I had one wire off the FI harness on the battery side that I hooked to a ground...yeah it was the issue...unhooked it and it fired right up.

All it takes is one wire to send ya going sideways for a while.
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BusBoi
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

Quote:
When I've seen this, it was because the cold start injector was working but the main injectors were not (hence the start but no run).


This seems spot on. Checking the injector plugs with a test light yields no pulsing and removing the cold start injector plug prevents the engine from firing at all.

I will be looking at the double relay and resistor block next.

Stay Tuned!
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

The long black wire with the fuse holder in it laying along the left side of the engine is connected to #15 on the coil, right?
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BusBoi
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

The culprit has been found!

The black cable that goes between the coil and the fuse that busdaddy suggested was fine, but upon very close inspection the other black wire coming out of that side of the fuse holder had a small nick. After cutting out the suspect section and splicing the wire back together everything worked normally again.

Thanks so much for all the suggestions from everyone! I would have been totally lost without them.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

Ah HA!, good work!, thanks for following up. Cool
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ImAddicted
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

Gotta love those “oh crap” problems that end up being a simple, cheap fix!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

BusBoi wrote:
The culprit has been found!

The black cable that goes between the coil and the fuse that busdaddy suggested was fine, but upon very close inspection the other black wire coming out of that side of the fuse holder had a small nick. After cutting out the suspect section and splicing the wire back together everything worked normally again.

Thanks so much for all the suggestions from everyone! I would have been totally lost without them.


Not sure why it would have started at all if this were the problem. Sad
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:36 am    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
BusBoi wrote:
The culprit has been found!

The black cable that goes between the coil and the fuse that busdaddy suggested was fine, but upon very close inspection the other black wire coming out of that side of the fuse holder had a small nick. After cutting out the suspect section and splicing the wire back together everything worked normally again.

Thanks so much for all the suggestions from everyone! I would have been totally lost without them.


Not sure why it would have started at all if this were the problem. Sad


He’ll be back, soon. Laughing
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Bay window starts then dies immediately Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
BusBoi wrote:
The culprit has been found!

The black cable that goes between the coil and the fuse that busdaddy suggested was fine, but upon very close inspection the other black wire coming out of that side of the fuse holder had a small nick. After cutting out the suspect section and splicing the wire back together everything worked normally again.

Thanks so much for all the suggestions from everyone! I would have been totally lost without them.


Not sure why it would have started at all if this were the problem. Sad

It's a common symptom of forgetting to plug that wire in, my theory as to why is after a priming shot from the CSV injector/ECU power backfeeds through the fuel pump contacts in the AFM until fuel pressure dies off and then it quits.


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