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andybla Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2014 Posts: 630 Location: BE
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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Hi!
Fast forward! The car has been media blasted and sprayed into epoxy primer, i have put an extra layer of black preserving paint, and now i'm spraying the inner wheel wells with a final layer of undercoating and welding on the side panels whilst blowing cold air on the welds so that the paint isn't burned off that much...
I noticed that the undercoating that i sprayed on can easily peeled off, is this normal with undercoating? Because i did scuff the paint up a bit and degreased
After seam sealing and a first part of undercoating, the side panels are mounted, because everything is hard to reach in there i'm gonna finish it all up soon ...
Cat was nagging to be in the picture
Is this normall??
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mdege Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 936 Location: Niederkruechten, Germany
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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Hi Andy,
That undercoating doesn't seem to be compatible with the black paint.
I wouldn't use it at all. And I would definitely peel it back off, because the way it is now it will cause water to be pulled in between the undercoating and the paint due to capillary action.
The best material preserve this area is probably Mike Sanders Korosionsschutzfett https://mike-sander.de/index.php/de/
Basically I will be doing all the welding, and then I will paint everything with a couple of layers of Branthocorrux Nitrofest and then a layer of the actual car color. Before I assemble the fenders I will add a thick coat of Mike Sanders to everything hidden behind the fenders.
The good thing about Mike Sanders is, that it will get soft when it gets warm and it will creep into all crevices which you missed. And unlike wax based products it does not shrink and crack.
For the areas under the car where you have dirt and water hitting the car I would use a clear wax undercoating. You will need two layers to start out with. And then you inspect the undercarriage on a yearly basis. By doing it this way you can catch any paint chips before it starts rusting and you can fix the paint. It also doesn't hurt to add more layers of the undercoating from time to time. _________________ - Michael
1965 21F: Restoration of a former '65 firetruck
1963 Typ3 Notchback project
1988 Multivan Magnum 112i
1984 Standard: My son wanted a bug for his first car |
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andybla Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2014 Posts: 630 Location: BE
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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Hi Michael!
Yes, that's exactly what that black paint is also, brantho
It's strange that the undercoating would not stick because in the datasheets they say you can paint it with everything, the undercoating is the 3M 08881 waterbased undercoating, and in the brantho data sheets they say to wait for at least 3 days, and i waited a week or so... |
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mdege Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 936 Location: Niederkruechten, Germany
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 12:57 am Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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Did you use Branto 3in1 or Nitrofest? It kind of looks like 3in1 because it looks like semigloss.
One thing I noticed is, that when you use a brush to apply Brantho it takes much longer to dry completely, than when you spray it. A solvent based top coat would probably stick better than a water based top coat. The solvent reacts with the Brantho and the layers tend to stick to each other. It definitely works well with the paint I used for my van.
In your case I would peel off what ever is loose and then use Mike Sanders to protect everything on the inside.
The kind of undercoating is meant to protect the underlying paint from rocks and other debris being kicked up by the tires. I don't think it really helps where you applied it. _________________ - Michael
1965 21F: Restoration of a former '65 firetruck
1963 Typ3 Notchback project
1988 Multivan Magnum 112i
1984 Standard: My son wanted a bug for his first car |
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andybla Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2014 Posts: 630 Location: BE
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 1:13 am Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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I used the 3in1 semigloss yes
Yes i noticed that also that painting it with a brush it takes longer to dry, but i called them and they said i should wait for a week, and after that i could just put anything on without sanding(!), like you say, i'm also wondering if it's the water based coating acting with the solvents in brantho... or maybe i have scuffed too light (p1000 wet, did that just to be sure), another thing i noticed is that the issue date on the undercoating bottle that i received was 2015, and the 3m data sheet says that the product has a shelf life of 12 months
i have ordered the 3m solvent based undercoating now, i'll do some testing with that first. I know it's normally used for under the car but my intention was also to create a sound deadening barrier
aren't you scared when using only brantho with that wax on your inner wheel wells that paint is going to chip off with flying rocks while driving? |
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mdege Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 936 Location: Niederkruechten, Germany
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 3:18 am Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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aren't you scared when using only brantho with that wax on your inner wheel wells that paint is going to chip off with flying rocks while driving? |
Well, not scared, sure it can happen. The wax does protect the paint and since it is basically clear, it is easy to spot any damage, which can then be repaired easily.
The Problem with the type of coating you are using is, that it can hide any damage to the underlying paint for years, before you see it. This means the rust can do it's thing without you knowing it. And then it might be too late. And it is much more effort to remove the coating to do any repairs.
The car industry started using a plastic coating in the late 70ies. And with those cars you have exactly this issue. The rust is hidden under the plastic coating. It eats it's way under the coating starting from the edges or from cracks. And by the time you realize it, it can be too late. And it is a real pain to remove this coating, because you have to do it by hand. No media blasting is able to take it off.
With the approach I am using all you need to do is to clean off the wax with a solvent like white gas (wasbenzine) . And then you can use Brantho to paint over the chipped area. Once the Brantho has dried you can reapply the wax and your good to go. _________________ - Michael
1965 21F: Restoration of a former '65 firetruck
1963 Typ3 Notchback project
1988 Multivan Magnum 112i
1984 Standard: My son wanted a bug for his first car |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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andybla wrote: |
Hi!
Fast forward! The car has been media blasted and sprayed into epoxy primer, i have put an extra layer of black preserving paint, and now i'm spraying the inner wheel wells with a final layer of undercoating and welding on the side panels whilst blowing cold air on the welds so that the paint isn't burned off that much...
I noticed that the undercoating that i sprayed on can easily peeled off, is this normal with undercoating? Because i did scuff the paint up a bit and degreased
After seam sealing and a first part of undercoating, the side panels are mounted, because everything is hard to reach in there i'm gonna finish it all up soon ...
Cat was nagging to be in the picture
Is this normall??
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It's looking good Andy. You really sealed it well (primers). As for the water based 3M stuff, I don't know how well that'll hold up. The burn looks normal though, even the solvent based stuff will do that.
The stuff Micheal was talking about is more like an old fashioned "Body shultz" that is almost like seam sealer, but sprayable. My T-34 had it, and the only way it was coming off was with a torch and a scraper. On this side of the pond, most people are using truck bed liner, as once that stuff hardens it's very hard to remove (I had an S-10 pickup with that stuff in it). I don't know if there's anything like it on your side of the pond though, maybe for industrial or farm use you might find it.
Oh yeah good looking cat. I missed it at first since it was hiding in the void. We've got a couple of black cats here too.
mdege; I do something similar, but instead of wax, I use clear coat paint. Mainly because it allows me to keep an eye on it, and do a repair if I need to. The best part is that I don't live in California, so everything I use is solvent based. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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andybla Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2014 Posts: 630 Location: BE
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:30 am Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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Hi, i thought i would give this thread a little update, in the end i peeled off all the undercoating and applied a solvent based, still need to spray a bit primer here and there to put on some new red color
But for now, i'm getting ready to media blast my chassis, removed the backseat support, added some barrel wheels for movement
i'm aiming to weld in a rear panel from a ghia.. because i don't got 1K for those green panels and the rear type3's they sell overseas you can't find them here
to be continued..
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:07 am Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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andybla wrote: |
Hi, i thought i would give this thread a little update, in the end i peeled off all the undercoating and applied a solvent based, still need to spray a bit primer here and there to put on some new red color
But for now, i'm getting ready to media blast my chassis, removed the backseat support, added some barrel wheels for movement
i'm aiming to weld in a rear panel from a ghia.. because i don't got 1K for those green panels and the rear type3's they sell overseas you can't find them here
to be continued..
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With all of the construction you've done so fsr, I think you can make t-1 based Ghia pans work. You'll have to do some custom shaping in the rear corner though, as that's what I noticed when I looked into doing it (using ghia pans for a t-3). The biggest thing, is the rear corners aren't "deep" enough on the ghia pans. Looking at that pic above, you could probably get away with using some bug pan sections to do the job. Those can be gotten almost anywhere cheap enough. Just a thought. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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andybla Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2014 Posts: 630 Location: BE
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:40 am Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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Thanks for your kind words Bob!
It has begun i think i got this
Needs a bit of tweaking but overall fit is good
Just another question, i've cut away next to the existing welded lip and will lay down the new pan on it so it will be a triple layer, where do i plug weld to ease the chassis flex as much as possible when driving? Right next to the oem plug welds or in between the oem plug welds? Or doesn't it matter?
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:00 am Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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andybla wrote: |
Thanks for your kind words Bob!
It has begun i think i got this
Needs a bit of tweaking but overall fit is good
Just another question, i've cut away next to the existing welded lip and will lay down the new pan on it so it will be a triple layer, where do i plug weld to ease the chassis flex as much as possible when driving? Right next to the oem plug welds or in between the oem plug welds? Or doesn't it matter?
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I'd weld it in solid using stitch welding. Keep in mind that the floor pan of a type 3 is a solid 1 piece stamping, with the tunnel spot welded to it. Not the other way around like a bug or ghia. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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andybla Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2014 Posts: 630 Location: BE
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:00 am Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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do you mean, lay the new panel flat onto the others so i have a triple layer, but weld it with stitches both sides? |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:48 am Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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andybla wrote: |
do you mean, lay the new panel flat onto the others so i have a triple layer, but weld it with stitches both sides? |
Yes, you'll end up with 3 layers along the tunnel. The original floor and the tunnel lip will be 2 layers, and your new floor section will be the 3rd layer. This is how most pan halves are done, since no one is offering a complete type 3 floor pan section (the stamped floor itself without the tunnel).
By stitching it, I mean weld it in 3 inch intervals, then come back and fill those gaps (lay down 3 inches of weld, move 6 to 8 inches over and weld 3 more inches, then repeat. Once you've gotten to the end, go back and fill in those gaps with 3 more inches of weld, until you have a full weld down each side of the tunnel. Flip the pan over and repeat on that side. In my case, I put the pan on it's side, to make it easier on my back when I did the bottom of the pans.
Example: _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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andybla Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2014 Posts: 630 Location: BE
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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Ok thx! |
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andybla Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2014 Posts: 630 Location: BE
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Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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After a day's work, the first ghia pan is almost ready to weld in
Needed lot's of (re)fitting and hammering into place, but it works
Got a little gap on the pictures where i grinded away too much, will add a little piece there, the connection between front and rear pan halve i will prop weld a piece of flat sheet metal, it's not that wide..
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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That little sliver in the rear will take nothing to do, as you'll spend more time grinding it down to blend it more than anything. The front slot will take a little time as well, only because you trimmed a little too much off it. It'll be one of those do you over lap it? Or trim a piece to but weld in? Still will be the same amount of welding regardless. Looks good though. Hopefully you'll have enough room for a battery to fit. Looks good though. Keep up the great work Andy. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Back to top |
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andybla Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2014 Posts: 630 Location: BE
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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Took it to the next step, welded in the ghia pan, sorry Bob, eventually did it with prop weld instead of stitching ..after that, tried a flat piece of sheet metal to connect both ends, just like it is with ghia pans ..coming along nice
Hopefully the flat piece will give enough rigidity/little to no resonance...
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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Well, since you're doing both sides, as long as you keep them consistent, it'll be alright. Nice job on it. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Back to top |
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andybla Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2014 Posts: 630 Location: BE
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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback |
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Finished the seat slider today, the seat fits
..but i think i'm missing some kind of slider bushing because the seat is rocking sideways
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17962 Location: Eugene, OR
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