A 1.8L 412 engine build thread

[RWK]

Very nice build info Ray, see this link for copper alloy seats and such, I use these mat'ls extensively in plastic injection mold building that I do, great transfer of heat and it's hardness is good also. I plan to play around with making some seats with it, only because I have it left over from jobs, and don't want the associated problems that go along with heavier press fits of steel seats. Their mat'l are beryllium free however, (for safety in repair and machining),so may not work harden as much. The mat'l is aka Ampco 940 and 945.
I have dealt with them for over 30 years and they are very responsive, only recently they have got into motorsports.

http://moldstar.com/MotorsportApplications.htm
_________________
73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[raygreenwood]

Yes! These are not 100% berrylium free. They say about 2%. Low enough that virtually no risk for machine work but just enough with the copper and other metals to have bery high heat transfer, moderate work hardening and very uniform heat expansion. Ray

[raygreenwood]

Update 1-17-2020:

This is a very short update. New valve seats finally came in today. I got the mail too late to get to the machine shop. Maybe they are in tomorrow. For sure Monday!

Very nice parts! Almost too pretty to install!

Hopefully the heads will be done in about a week. Everything is waiting on them!

More to come!
Ray

[RWK]

They look great, alum bronze for intakes and BeCu for exhaust ? I assume the seat pockets will be machined oversize to true up, how much over did you get the seats,? can you go deeper also, say .005-.010 also to clean up, or do you have limits?
_________________
73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[raygreenwood]

[RWK]

Nice, and keeping with that theme, of course special tin or al. bronze valve guides. Seat bores, bored on precision mill, with a boring head or CNC circular interpolated to insure hole roundness, and location, after above guides are inserted and each location indicated in to zero, no piloted drill press cutters should be used here,
Knowing you like data see this website regarding bronze alloys and there use's, no proprietary crap here, that don't fly in industry, enjoy, should be a great build, good luck.
https://www.anchorbronze.com/single-post/2018/02/13/C90500-Tin-Bronze-for-Valve-Guides
_________________
73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[RWK]

Nice, and keeping with that theme, of course special tin or al. bronze valve guides. Seat bores, bored on precision mill, with a boring head or CNC circular interpolated to insure hole roundness, and location, after above guides are inserted and each location indicated in to zero, no piloted drill press cutters should be used here,
Knowing you like data see this website regarding bronze alloys and there use's, no proprietary crap here, that don't fly in industry, enjoy, should be a great build, good luck.
https://www.anchorbronze.com/single-post/2018/02/13/C90500-Tin-Bronze-for-Valve-Guides
_________________
73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[RWK]

whoops, fat fingers!
_________________
73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[raygreenwood]

[orwell84]

If you ever get some extra time, it would be great to see how you measured the case, especially bores and mains. Nice write up.

[vamram]

Bump....
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!

[raygreenwood]

[raygreenwood]

My apologies to all...especially the owner of this engine....for the long delays in progress and updates.

Along with this build I have several small parts projects that have just been waiting to post "how to's" for. These are the gas tank inlet gaskets which are finished and the cylinder head temp sensor mounting system and the rear disc brake system for my car. More on those in their own threads.

So....with the new year starting and what little business there is picking up....I also had a family member with health issues. Taking care of my mom and dad became a full time issue over the past three months and time flew by like a rocket. Things are now pretty stable and its back to work.

Take care of your family!

SO!.....


FINALLY!....after a year+ of me missing deadlines and the shop missing deadlines and getting caught in the racing season rush for the machine shop I was working with.....the cylinder heads finally are done and in my hands....and they are VERY nice!

Over the next two nights I will pull each valve and take detailed pictures....not because I do not trust the shop....but I want to document the work...and...I dont trust ANYONE!

So just some teaser pictures for the moment:

These are 47.5cc chambers. This will allow an 8.12:1 compression ratio with an 0.040" deck and no head gasket...and no step in chamber. This will run very well and probably make an honest 90-92hp.

The valves are a five angle, seats are blended to heads. The springs are Crower that come in the type 4 store Kit for the 9550 and 9590. They are slightly smaller in diameter than the ones that came in these heads....which is better for less wear on the flanges around the pockets and they had better tension characteristics.

More to come shortly!

Ray

[raygreenwood]

Update 5-23-2021

Ok…a little more detail on the heads.

During my conversation with the machinist when I was picking these up….he “said” these were a five-angle valve job (very nice…. but is more than necessary).
I was chatting with him last night and he looked at his notebook and noted…no…these are standard three angle with a slight back cut and swirl polish which is just fine!

By the way….my lighting sucks in these pictures. None of these pictures does these heads justice. I will get it worked out.
I miss my old shop area in Des Moines….I had a lighting rack over where I worked.

Here is the 1 & 2 head with the valves out:

Intake and exhaust seats

The rough looking area between the ports is from the lighting on a very shiny area where light wire wheeling was done. My lighting sucks.

The work looks excellent! The seats have only a small amount of ledge and good overall blending.

The valve guides are right at 8.0mm ID or 0.3149” and the valve stems are right at 0.3125” so stem to guide clearance of 0.0024”. Very good. They also had a rock of right at 0.018” which is factory best.

The ports sat for an hour filled with solvent without leaking a drop.

Then after reassembly…I was checking the valve stems to make sure they were even with my steel rule….and I saw something I was not happy with.
Big gaps…much lower tips on the intake valves…..very slight gap on exhaust valve tips

…….and then….DUH-H-H…I realized my steel rule was sitting on the valve cover rails!

I have had this problem before. I always meant to find an 8” machine rule and buy it to keep just for this...but always forget. So…I dug out my trusty small granite plate…which is as straight on the edge as my machine rule and far smoother. Its 7.5” wide and just long enough.
You can see the 0.0025" feeler gauge between teh granite and teh valve tip in this pircture.

Yes…the intake valve tips on both heads are VERY slightly lower than the exhausts….but measured out at 0.0025” low and dead equal to each other. That is no problem with geometry at all.

I called the machinist and he stated that for just a couple of thousandths he did not want to lap and sink the valves any lower on the intakes….just for that.

The valves have perfectly concentric lapping rings /marks.

New Manley 42mm intake valves on left, old (but unused) Ivam 41mm intake valves on right

Other items:

The springs that came on these heads were very good quality, but they had very small rust pits on them. They were going to be thrown into a rim polisher for a short time and then into a hot oil vat. They would have been just fine to use.

However, the machinist noted that looking at the cam specs, the usage of this engine and the fact that the Manley valves are lighter than the Ivam valves in the head….they had a little too much tension on them.

They had ~ 125-128 lbs on the seat with the old spring set. This is what Len Hoffman states he uses on hydraulic lifters with the same Crower spring set these are using.

Len stated a while back that on cams like the Web 73 or Web 142 at 110-115 pounds on the seat and at 0.430” lift they have 192 lbs.

These are set up at 113 to 117 lbs on the seat.

I sent with the heads a new set of springs and keepers that I had that came in my Raby 9550 kit. I said he could use those if needed. They are the same set of Crower springs from the type 4 store that HAM Inc uses with chromoly retainers.

The machinist also noted that they have a slightly reduced diameter which is good for keeping them off of the walls of the valve spring seat pocket…reducing wear….but also for safety he stepped the valve guide boss a bit.

You can see the differences between the springs and retainers here in these two pictures. The one on the left is stock the one on the right are these.
Here is the difference in the springs.

The new ones are 1.235” on the left and the old ones on the right are 1.350”.

So far, these heads look excellent! I will move on to the #3/4 head inspection and report if there is anything different. I will post a few pics for the record either way.

Ray