Getting the Horns working properly

[Bob Soderquist]

What keeps the upper steering column bearing from grounding the steering shaft to the column itself?
I have not seen mention of this as a possible cause for inadvertent horn activation. I have tried pretty much everything to figure out why when I turn the key on my horn blows. Finally pulled the column and looked at the upper bearing installation and thus my question. It appears to be a direct ground of the shaft to the column.
Any help greatly appreciated...

[Bob Soderquist]

I forgot to mention in my upper steering column bearing question that I have a 65 Karmann Ghia...

[sputnick60]

[bnam]

Did you install a new rubbercoupler? THere is a version of the steering coupler that is not insulative and actually conducts and can create a short -- resulting in horn activating all the time.

Tore my hair out trying to chase a similar short down until I discovered it was the coupler.
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1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Bob Soderquist]

[Bob Soderquist]

[69 GVert]

[rbsurfguy]

Thanks, I responded in my build thread, but I did check those before and have cut them back, I think I need to cut one more back, but will check that and confirm. Thanks for pointing it out, and checking my thread!
Jeff
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1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

[bnam]

[sputnick60]

Thanks for that Bnam. It’s difficult to argue with evidence like that. I’ll go back and edit the first post so it flags this problem.

Nicholas
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'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Bob Soderquist]

Thanks for all the great info.

I replaced the rubber steering connection but to no avail. Horn would still sound whenever ignition was on.

Having pretty well checked out all aspects of grounding in the column. I took a better look at the steering wheel and horn ring assembly.

An aftermarket horn ring had been installed by the PO. Deciding that this was the next place to concentrate on I removed the three attachment screws,
insulators, springs and contact ring.

The first thing I noticed was the stepped insulator grommet that is suppose to pass thru the horn ring didn’t. I measured the OD of the grommet and it was 7 mm....the diameter of the hole in the AFTERMARKET horn ring was 5mm.

Obviously, without insulating protection the screws that hold the horn ring in place we’re grounding the horn ring and the horn would sound any time the ignition was turned on.

As I had mentioned a PO had installed an aftermarket horn ring and apparently not being able to figure out why the horn sounded gave up and installed a push button switch on the dash.

I replaced the after market ring with an OE ring I had on hand ( grommet fits correctly) and the horn works fine .


Thanks again to everyone who helped with this problem. For me it was a real head scratcher...

[The Wagen]

While doing a 6 to 12 volt conversion, I’ve run into a horn issue on a 66 Ghia. I’m using a 12v Bosch 5 pin. The horn “sticks” on once the ring is pressed. I have to shut the ignition off to silence the horns. When the ignition is turned back on the horns remain silent until the horn ring gets pushed again. I’ve swapped the relay but get the same results.
Further diagnosis- horns work when I ground the relay manually. With a volt meter I see the horn ring ground is momentary like it should be. Put them back together and it’s back to a constant on once activated. A little frustrated 🤨 any help would be appreciated.

Update. Bypassed the relay ( power direct and brown wire direct.) Horns work perfectly. More confusion.

[bnam]

Try another relay - to eliminate that as a source.
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[sputnick60]

[misterh]

One characteristic of a relay is that the voltage required to remain activated (drop out voltage) is much lower than the voltage required to activate (pick up voltage). A relay with an 8V pick up voltage might remain activated with a volt or two.

If you have a leakage path to ground through the rubber coupler, it may not be enough to activate the relay, but enough to keep the relay activated after you ground the horn ring.

Contrary to popular belief, it's quite common for different rubbers to conduct electricity because carbon black is added to the mixture. My guess is that some folks that manufacture the couplers are unaware of this.

[El Guero]

Any tips on hooking up the horn on a Empi Datsun wheel?
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Praise the Lowered...

[Peter D.]

This might be a really dumb question but electricity is mysterious to me...

I just finished restoring my chassis and the beam is freshly painted.

Should I scratch some paint off between the beam and the steering box to create a ground to the chassis?

But the area where the bolts pass through to the beam to the frame head is also painted. So I would need to scratch some paint off under the bolt?

Or run a ground wife from the steering box?
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress

[sputnick60]

Not a dumb question in the slightest. Either of those approaches would work.
Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[demley]

Hello
I have followed your guide, here’s what I’m confronted with. This is a new restoration (46 miles). The horn was working fine but the cancellation of the directional signal wasn’t functioning, I found a significant gap between the steering wheel and the signal mechanism. I adjusted the signal switch forward but there still remained the gap so I unbolted the column support and moved the steering tube forward, in order to do that I sprayed CRC 556 on the bushing at the base of the steering tube…directional signal now cancel but when I attached the brown wire that comes out of the steering shaft the horn sounds continuously. Is the lube enough to cause this? Any suggestions would be appreciated
Thank you in advance
Don

[Peter D.]

Since all you did is move the steering column, I feel there are two possibilities, you kinked the wire that runs inside the steering column and it's grounding someplace or more likely the the steering column is grounding against the steering column tube where it exits under the the gas tank.

I would start by looking under the driver side tire and seeing if it's rubbing and take it from there.
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress